Jesus may have visited UK

[FourWheelDrift]

OnTheOverrun said:

FourWheelDrift said:

OnTheOverrun said:

FourWheelDrift said:

OnTheOverrun said:

I'm surprised this is suddenly news. I thought it was common knowledge/legend that Jesus travelled with Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy sanhedrin and trader to Cornwall to buy tin. This was a fairly common Phoenician trade route at the time so it's not inconceivable, especially as we only know about 30 of Jesus' 33 years of life so he had plenty of time for a few trips.

Mythology is a word that doesn't mean true

Personally I have great trouble believing the any of the Bible, but believing a bloke called Jesus travelled on trade route that is well documented in history with a bloke who is well documented to have travelled that route, is quite easy to believe.

All of the stories about Joseph of Arimathea (if he ever existed, there is no proof) were written centuries after his death and he have been used as a useful link to hold together the fragile chains of religious legends, like the Holy Grail. He is not mentioned in any of the early writings about how Christianity was brought to the British Isles. It's only in the 9th Century that his name first appears in relation to Britain, in a series of stories about Mary Magdelene written by the Archbishop of Mainz.

Religions

I didn't mention religion once, just historical trade routes.

Yes, but the "earliest" mention of him is the one above, the text describes him taking the route of a supposed Phoenician trade route to Britain, as described by Diodorus Siculus to bring Christianity to Britain written 900 years after the event was supposed to have happened. In the 11th Century Williams of Malmesbury claims he came to Britain to found Glastonbury Abbey. He did not come here as a trader if he ever did, the stories around him are all religious based which is why I mentioned them.

[dr_gn]

FourWheelDrift said:

In the same way someone studying Wizards and Magic reads Harry Potter books

But surely you can't study the Bible for several years and still come to the conclusion it's all true?

I'm pretty sure I must be missing something with religion, and I wish I knew what it was. I'd love to be a Christian, and feel persecuted because I have apparently not been given the ability to be one. I will be extremely upset if I end up in hell (which knowing my luck I will).

My Great Great Grandad was a Methodist Minister, as is my Father in Law. Still, I truly don't understand it all. Stories like this just confuse me even more...then there's Richard Dawkins - who doesn't help matters.

[FourWheelDrift]

dr_gn said:

But surely you can't study the Bible for several years and still come to the conclusion it's all true?

I don't know how anyone reading any part of the bible can believe any of it is true, let alone all of it.

[dr_gn]

FourWheelDrift said:

dr_gn said:

But surely you can't study the Bible for several years and still come to the conclusion it's all true?

I don't know how anyone reading any part of the bible can believe any of it is true, let alone all of it.

So why is anyone a Christian? there must be WAY more to it than that?

[grumbledoak]

OnTheOverrun said:

Yes I have unlike you apparently.

Laughable.

I haven't argued against ancient long distance trade routes. Indeed, there is some (weak, but it was a long time ago) evidence of trade between ancient Egypt and South America- a far longer journey.

But why would the son of a Jewish carpenter be on a difficult endeavour with his uncle to go to Cornwall for tin? Any, why then would he pop in to Glastonbury- at the time it was not that accessible, and would have had no significance to the Jews.

[FourWheelDrift]

I suppose they just need something to believe in, like fairies at the bottom of the garden or Harvey the 6ft white Rabbit.

Stories are just stories, imagine someone thousands of years from now finding episodes of EastEnders (or any others) and thinking it was a real fly on the wall documentary. With no one around to say otherwise that is how they would be perceived as true accounts of what happened at the time.

[Langweilig]

Union of the Crowns -Scotland & England 1603.United Kingdom 1802. Union between Scotland, England & Ireland (Wales is a principality).

[grumbledoak]

Wales is a st-hole. What was your point?

[dr_gn]

Langweilig said:

Union of the Crowns -Scotland & England 1603.United Kingdom 1802. Union between Scotland, England & Ireland (Wales is a principality).

Excellent. I was only 2 years out then.

[Bill]

grumbledoak said:

But why would the son of a Jewish carpenter be on a difficult endeavour with his uncle to go to Cornwall for tin? Any, why then would he pop in to Glastonbury- at the time it was not that accessible, and would have had no significance to the Jews.

Particularly as Phoenicia had become part of the Roman empire by then, and Joseph is described as a "counsellor"...

[Digga]

grumbledoak said:

Wales is a st-hole.

[picphttp://www.walesinfo.com/wales_elegug.jpg[/pic]





I tried, but I can't see your point.

[rs1952]

Digga said:

grumbledoak said:

Wales is a st-hole.

[picphttp://www.walesinfo.com/wales_elegug.jpg[/pic]





I tried, but I can't see your point.

Now post some photos of the centre of Merthyr Tydfil

[Digga]

rs1952 said:

Now post some photos of the centre of Merthyr Tydfil

I spent my first four years of learning how to fight school in South Wales, so I know it's not all picture postcard, but where is?

[G_T]

Digga said:

rs1952 said:

Now post some photos of the centre of Merthyr Tydfil

I spent my first four years of learning how to fight school in South Wales, so I know it's not all picture postcard, but where is?

North Wales.

[Halb]

cymtriks said:

grumbledoak said:

OnTheOverrun said:

I'm surprised this is suddenly news. I thought it was common knowledge/legend that Jesus travelled with Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy sanhedrin and trader to Cornwall to buy tin. This was a fairly common Phoenician trade route at the time so it's not inconceivable, especially as we only know about 30 of Jesus' 33 years of life so he had plenty of time for a few trips.

Ri-iight. Have you any idea how long and arduous that journey would be at the time? The Roman Empire didn't manage to conquer the Island, yet one man and his nephew 'popped in' for as much tin as they could carry?

It's completely possible though.
Cornwall was known hundreds of years before Jesus as a source of tin. It was one of the main sources of tin at the time of Jesus.

However...

Apart from this folk myth is there any evidence that he actually travelled with Joseph of Arimathea, anywhere at all, to buy tin or anything else at all?

It is of interest that India also has this story. Some of the Indian christians, who trace their faith back to the apostle Thomas, claim that Jesus was educated in India at a Buddhist monastary. Their claim actually has some evidence to back it up as the monastary has records of several monks being sent west to find a holy baby about 2000 years ago and a tomb of a holy man who survived a crucifiction and fled east back to the place of his education.

There is a fun book called Lamb by Christopher Moore, deals with Christ's life before he hit the big time, up to age 30 I think. It is a good read and covers the above

[dr_gn]

G_T said:

Digga said:

rs1952 said:

Now post some photos of the centre of Merthyr Tydfil

I spent my first four years of learning how to fight school in South Wales, so I know it's not all picture postcard, but where is?

North Wales.

Is it Crib Goch / Snowdon ?

[Halb]

dr_gn said:

Langweilig said:

Union of the Crowns -Scotland & England 1603.United Kingdom 1802. Union between Scotland, England & Ireland (Wales is a principality).

Excellent. I was only 2 years out then.

What occurred in 1802? The act of Union was 1707.
Acts of Union 1707

Edited by Halb on Friday 27th November 14:13

[dr_gn]

Halb said:

dr_gn said:

Langweilig said:

Union of the Crowns -Scotland & England 1603.United Kingdom 1802. Union between Scotland, England & Ireland (Wales is a principality).

Excellent. I was only 2 years out then.

What occurred in 1802? The act of Union was 1707.
Acts of Union 1707

Edited by Halb on Friday 27th November 14:13

From Wikipedia: "...the Kingdom of Ireland, already under English control by 1691, merged with the Kingdom of Great Britain to form the United Kingdom with the passing of the Act of Union 1800".

So maybe I wasn't even 2 years out?

[Halb]

dr_gn said:

Halb said:

dr_gn said:

Langweilig said:

Union of the Crowns -Scotland & England 1603.United Kingdom 1802. Union between Scotland, England & Ireland (Wales is a principality).

Excellent. I was only 2 years out then.

What occurred in 1802? The act of Union was 1707.
Acts of Union 1707

Edited by Halb on Friday 27th November 14:13

From Wikipedia: "...the Kingdom of Ireland, already under English control by 1691, merged with the Kingdom of Great Britain to form the United Kingdom with the passing of the Act of Union 1800".

So maybe I wasn't even 2 years out?

Ahh, should have read me own link, 1800 was when Ireland was added to the UK. Doh!!
Act of Union (1800)

edit for pedantry.
It still remains 1707 since the Kingdom of Great Britain was also referred to as the United Kingdom of Great Britain.

Edited by Halb on Friday 27th November 14:49

[Dr_Gonzo]

OnTheOverrun said:

FourWheelDrift said:

OnTheOverrun said:

FourWheelDrift said:

OnTheOverrun said:

I'm surprised this is suddenly news. I thought it was common knowledge/legend that Jesus travelled with Joseph of Arimathea, a wealthy sanhedrin and trader to Cornwall to buy tin. This was a fairly common Phoenician trade route at the time so it's not inconceivable, especially as we only know about 30 of Jesus' 33 years of life so he had plenty of time for a few trips.

Mythology is a word that doesn't mean true

Personally I have great trouble believing the any of the Bible, but believing a bloke called Jesus travelled on trade route that is well documented in history with a bloke who is well documented to have travelled that route, is quite easy to believe.

All of the stories about Joseph of Arimathea (if he ever existed, there is no proof) were written centuries after his death and he have been used as a useful link to hold together the fragile chains of religious legends, like the Holy Grail. He is not mentioned in any of the early writings about how Christianity was brought to the British Isles. It's only in the 9th Century that his name first appears in relation to Britain, in a series of stories about Mary Magdelene written by the Archbishop of Mainz.

Religions

I didn't mention religion once, just historical trade routes.

I don't think anyone is denying that the trade routes existed, only that the possibility that Jesus (if he every existed) travelled them and came to Cornwall. Surely, given the distances invloved, most of the people travelling these routes would be nomadic tribesmen who's entire life is spent traveling and trading on such routes.