The rise of the Lib Dems

[s2art]

MikeyT said:

jesusbuiltmycar said:

Guybrush said:

The people don't seem to be checking the Lib Dem small print. Remember the massive opposition to road pricing? Well, the Lib Dems would introduce it. Are you aware of the massive tax payer-funded subsidies the rail and other public transport systems have had? The Lib Dems would increase them. They would massively increase car tax also. And disarm ourselves just as China and Iran are strengthening their military capabilities. They would not invest in nuclear power but would rely on windmills and other inefficient forms of power generation. It goes on and on - they are worse than Labour - further to the left - don't fall for the chessy Bliar look - they are Labour squared.

Funny how Clegg has manaed to avoid mentioning road-pricing during the debates - why hasn't Cameron bought the issue up?

Do the Tories say anywhere in their manifesto they are NOT going to do it for sure?

The Tories do have plans for road pricing. They claim that they will allow the private sector to build roads and charge, like the M6 Toll. They claim that is the limit of their road pricing strategy.

[Chimune]

s2art said:

Chimune said:

I cant see a lot wrong with that - bearing in mind that all the main parties are anti-motorist. I'd much rather pay per mile/road rather than a blanket insanotax on petrol. Plus as i live in the countryside, its a lot fairer than fuel duty.

They also say they will price the roads on a local level, not a national one.

Anyone want to discuss the Tory or Lab plans? Coz they aint gonna be better than that !

LOL. Have you thought about just how road pricing would be implemented? Do you fancy having all your car journeys monitored, average speed computed, more cameras (in fact cameras everywhere or a spy in the sky), a big database of car movements etc?

Thats all gonna happen one day anyway. Question is - would you like it setup by the wooly LibDems or jackbooted NuLabour ?
Also - it will be many, many, many years before a monitoring network complex enough to survive criminal trials and appeals exists. I doubt they will be putting a camera on every A & B road junction in Northumberland !

[Chimune]

BTW - imagine the UK roads being as smooth and well maintained as those in France, yet petrol only being 50p a litre.

Yup - terrible idea....

[s2art]

Chimune said:

s2art said:

Chimune said:

I cant see a lot wrong with that - bearing in mind that all the main parties are anti-motorist. I'd much rather pay per mile/road rather than a blanket insanotax on petrol. Plus as i live in the countryside, its a lot fairer than fuel duty.

They also say they will price the roads on a local level, not a national one.

Anyone want to discuss the Tory or Lab plans? Coz they aint gonna be better than that !

LOL. Have you thought about just how road pricing would be implemented? Do you fancy having all your car journeys monitored, average speed computed, more cameras (in fact cameras everywhere or a spy in the sky), a big database of car movements etc?

Thats all gonna happen one day anyway. Question is - would you like it setup by the wooly LibDems or jackbooted NuLabour ?
Also - it will be many, many, many years before a monitoring network complex enough to survive criminal trials and appeals exists. I doubt they will be putting a camera on every A & B road junction in Northumberland !

a)I do not think it will happen under the Tories.

b) But that is what it means to have road pricing; the ability to monitor road use. That means cameras, lots of them. We already have the technology to do the job. They are called speed cameras (in various forms) and ANPR. They survive criminal trials and appeals.

[s2art]

Chimune said:

BTW - imagine the UK roads being as smooth and well maintained as those in France, yet petrol only being 50p a litre.

Yup - terrible idea....

Given that the LibDims are hell bent on spending huge amounts on public transport, what makes you think that they will be able to reduce fuel tax significantly? Or fix the roads for that matter.

[Chimune]

s2art said:

a)I do not think it will happen under the Tories.

b) But that is what it means to have road pricing; the ability to monitor road use. That means cameras, lots of them. We already have the technology to do the job. They are called speed cameras (in various forms) and ANPR. They survive criminal trials and appeals.

They are speed cameras. I am talking about road pricing, which can currently only really work on major roads with few junctions/turnoffs. 90% of the countries roads would be un-pricable. How is any sort of system gonna tell how i got from Etal to Kelso via Bonnybridge using lots of fun B roads ? The remaining 10% would be well maintained and yes - you might have to be more careful with your speed, but so what? You cant really speed anywhere in London already.

[s2art]

Chimune said:

s2art said:

a)I do not think it will happen under the Tories.

b) But that is what it means to have road pricing; the ability to monitor road use. That means cameras, lots of them. We already have the technology to do the job. They are called speed cameras (in various forms) and ANPR. They survive criminal trials and appeals.

They are speed cameras. I am talking about road pricing, which can currently only really work on major roads with few junctions/turnoffs. 90% of the countries roads would be un-pricable. How is any sort of system gonna tell how i got from Etal to Kelso via Bonnybridge using lots of fun B roads ? The remaining 10% would be well maintained and yes - you might have to be more careful with your speed, but so what? You cant really speed anywhere in London already.

The technology was trialled for speed cameras and ANPR mounted in Catseyes. So any road could be monitored. It would just be rolled out over several years.

See; http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2007/cats-eye-c...

Edited by s2art on Monday 26th April 16:14

[Thudd]

A key difference between the Lib Dems and Labour is the "Liberal" bit - I can't see them introducing compulsary ID cards, for example.
I'm still undecided. They're all tts, cameron is an arse, but i'm not voting labour, and i'm not convinced the Lib Dems are a viable electable party. At least there are living Tories who can remember being in power.

[Chimune]

s2art said:

Given that the LibDims are hell bent on spending huge amounts on public transport, what makes you think that they will be able to reduce fuel tax significantly? Or fix the roads for that matter.

I dont care. Its their manifesto. All i can do i read the ideas and decide if i think they are worse, better or the same as the current ones. Do you not want fuel tax reduced ?

We should be spending shed loads on public transport. The more grannies and shoolrun-mums on public transport the better.

[s2art]

Chimune said:

s2art said:

Given that the LibDims are hell bent on spending huge amounts on public transport, what makes you think that they will be able to reduce fuel tax significantly? Or fix the roads for that matter.

I dont care. Its their manifesto. All i can do i read the ideas and decide if i think they are worse, better or the same as the current ones. Do you not want fuel tax reduced ?

I read the ideas then decide if they are credible and what the consequences would be. And I do not believe the LibDims will reduce motoring taxes, rather the opposite.

[JagLover]

s2art said:

Chimune said:

BTW - imagine the UK roads being as smooth and well maintained as those in France, yet petrol only being 50p a litre.

Yup - terrible idea....

Given that the LibDims are hell bent on spending huge amounts on public transport, what makes you think that they will be able to reduce fuel tax significantly? Or fix the roads for that matter.

Given they are going to cut the roads budget by £3bn they will be in an even worse state than they are now.

[Chimune]

s2art said:

And I do not believe the LibDims will reduce motoring taxes, rather the opposite.

Fairynuff. Whoever gets in will be using the motorist to generate lots of tax. Which is why using the LibDem transport policy against them is pointless !

BTW, I dont believe any of the parties manifestos. I am just playing devils advocate..

[rs1952]

CatherineJ said:

TankRizzo said:

One thing I have noticed..

Drove from Portsmouth to Dartmoor and back this weekend, doing the usual Duke of Edinburgh practice. Crossed many different constituencies along the way, and we saw a hell of a lot of Conservative placards in gardens, fields and roadsides. Also saw quite a few Lib Dem ones.

Have a guess how many Labour ones I saw....absolutely none. Zero. I appreciate that we weren't exactly in Labour heartlands, but I would have thought I would have at least spotted one. They must be absolutely skint.

Same around Wiltshire, I have yet to see a Labour poster or placard.

You won't.

From Wiltshire to Penzance, except in some of the major towns and cities, voting Labour has never really "caught on" and its been a whig/ tory contest since the 1832 Reform Act