High-speed rail link - London to Birmingham

[Parrot of Doom]

Magog said:

Parrot of Doom said:

RobDickinson said:

virgin countryside? realy? in the UK? not a lot of that left is there....

Actually once you're outside London, there's a hell of a lot of countryside in the UK. It's just that most people never bother to go see it.

I think his point that all landscapes (with possibly one or two exceptions) in the UK have been shaped and altered by the actions of man.

You can try and romanticise it but the modern countryside in the UK is just a giant factory that happens to make food.

I think we may have differing opinions of what constitutes the countryside Mine looks like this:

[GarryA]

Yertis said:

The railways were in decline a long time before 1947, at that point they were knackered, really worn out.

HS2 is just a vanity project IMO, upgrading or reopening what we already have would deliver vastly more benefit to the country.

Sorry, I was talking in respect to route mileage not the condition or anything, have a look on the Network Rail website at the Route Strategy Papers, you will find they are re-opening and upgrading what we have already.

Unfortunately as soon as there is disruption for engineering works the public and the press go fckin apest.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/4449.aspx

[GarryA]

Its 61.

[bucksmanuk]

"Is there any evidence to support that? They could well be quieter? (What with modern technology and all that)"
They could well be quieter, says who? You?
Twice the speed = four times the force required = 8 times the power, OK no diesel engine, just an electric motor, but the wheels and wind are going to be much more noisy.

I will go for them being noisier and so does my work colleague, the aerodynamicist with a relevant PhD.

[GarryA]

bucksmanuk said:

"Is there any evidence to support that? They could well be quieter? (What with modern technology and all that)"
They could well be quieter, says who? You?
Twice the speed = four times the force required = 8 times the power, OK no diesel engine, just an electric motor, but the wheels and wind are going to be much more noisy.

I will go for them being noisier and so does my work colleague, the aerodynamicist with a relevant PhD.

If they go for axle counter detection or in cab signalling there will be no joints to run over either.

[rs1952]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Clues - the Bristol to Frome via Radstock is missing. That dates it after November 1959
The Midland & South Western Junction (Cheltenham-Swindon-Andover) is still there. That closed in September 1961

There is also a red herring/ cartographical error. The Chippenham-Calne branch is not shown but that didn't close until November 1965

The S&D closed in March 1966

[RobDickinson]

Parrot of Doom said:

I think we may have differing opinions of what constitutes the countryside Mine looks like this:

Which has a road through it and has been mostly denuded of plants in favour of grass for grazing etc....

But regardless you wont find any 'pristine' untouched land between london and birmingham.

As for rail projects, we've got our own being planeed in Auckland and someones done a study of them worldwide, they always go over budget and always over estimate the passenger levels.

So double the cost and halve the passenger numbers would more likely be realistic.

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Some of those disused lines near me are now great cycle routes. It's not all bad news.

[Jasandjules]

Jobbo said:

Currently, yes, but the projections are for greater rail use and I believe they are fairly robust.

Presumably because they are trying to tax us off the roads.. And/or just make it far less pleasant to drive anywhere.

[Magog]

Parrot of Doom said:

Magog said:

Parrot of Doom said:

RobDickinson said:

virgin countryside? realy? in the UK? not a lot of that left is there....

Actually once you're outside London, there's a hell of a lot of countryside in the UK. It's just that most people never bother to go see it.

I think his point that all landscapes (with possibly one or two exceptions) in the UK have been shaped and altered by the actions of man.

You can try and romanticise it but the modern countryside in the UK is just a giant factory that happens to make food.

I think we may have differing opinions of what constitutes the countryside Mine looks like this:

At risk of turning this into a very dull off topic argument; I wonder why the grass is so uniform in length?

[anonymous-user]

Magog said:

Did you actually photoshop that by adding some sheep?

[rs1952]

RobDickinson said:

But regardless you wont find any 'pristine' untouched land between london and birmingham.

Not sure about that. Have a look at Google Earth and open some of the attached photographs

RobDickinson said:

As for rail projects, ... someones done a study of them worldwide, they always go over budget and always over estimate the passenger levels.

So double the cost and halve the passenger numbers would more likely be realistic.

'Twas ever thus. Most railways that were built in the 19th century would never have raised their capital if the potential investors had known what the true building costs and potential traffic levels actually were.

[GarryA]

Airdrie to Bathgate project has just been commissioned on time and on budget. A fantastic achievement for all involved.

http://www.airdriebathgateraillink.co.uk/project/g...

NR have also taken / taking new works teams in house, I am the supervisor for said works between Kings Cross and York in the signals department, after the re-org of Network Rail Maintenance in April there will be a lot less pointless maintenance and a lot more renewals and upgrades.

It doesn't matter how well you maintain st, its still st.

[Magog]

It's a real shame that they didn't manage to perfect and implement 'Moving block' when they upgraded the West Coast Main Line. That would have been a massive leap forwards in terms of opening up capacity on a heavily used mixed mode railway.

[anonymous-user]

Does anyone know the expected frequency of the new trains on this line? My parents are close and my mum is convinced they are every 4 mins. Sounds like cobblers to me!

[Manee]

whilst i dont think its pointless 101% i think its a bit of a millenium dome

it probably will have its uses though if it stretched to manchester and glasgow THEN it would be worth it. the destinations where it would make considerable difference in time

i personally think the money could be better spent on the freight option - a nice roll on roll off across the country

[anonymous-user]

el stovey said:

Magog said:

Did you actually photoshop that by adding some sheep?

Looks like the good old Winnats pass by Castleton, Derby's.

Is it a sheep or Parrot of Doom himself ?

Bet it's great fun in this weather up there, or more fun down ;.

I'll bet there's a railway line in the next valley along with a folk train http://www.folktrain.org.uk/Newsletter.htm going to here http://www.theramblerinn.com/

It must be all go in your neck of the valleys PoD

RobDickinson said:

virgin countryside? realy? in the UK? not a lot of that left is there....

What a load a Bull, there's loads of it, maybe a few better rail links would enable people to escape that dirty, grimy hole known as London, then we could cut the London weighting off all Civil service pay to pay for the rail link

[ninja-lewis]

speedyguy said:

el stovey said:

Magog said:

Did you actually photoshop that by adding some sheep?

RobDickinson said:

virgin countryside? realy? in the UK? not a lot of that left is there....

What a load a Bull, there's loads of it, maybe a few better rail links would enable people to escape that dirty, grimy hole known as London, then we could cut the London weighting off all Civil service pay to pay for the rail link

Actually no, there's very landscape in Britain that hasn't been altered by man at some point in the past 6,000 years. Even the landscape of Winnat's Pass and nearby peaks was altered by local farms (sheep grazing, drystone walls), mining, bronze age hill forts, the loss of local species and the introduction of foreign species, as well as the modern roads and tourist attractions.

[rs1952]

Manee said:

i personally think the money could be better spent on the freight option - a nice roll on roll off across the country

This has been done to death umpteen times on here. Its not going to happen.

The infrastructure (goods yards, sidings etc) is no longer there. Look back at the 1961 map earlier in this thread and compare it to the modern day railway map - the railway isn't there either in many parts of the country.

Even if it was possible to transfer great swathes of traffic to rail, it would still need to be delivered to the railhead and collected from the other end. You'd have no less trucks in towns than you have now.

If anybody wants to argue the toss on this point I'll look back through some of the old threads and repost some of my earlier epistles

[GarryA]

Have a look here for an example,

Shorpe Marshaling Yard, this was on Tomorrows World when it was upgraded in the 80's, 18 lines wide now ripped out and the area re-signaled so no hope of it being used.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

Shorpe Goods Yard - Ripped out, buildings derelict, station abandoned along with all loading platforms, even lines that would be very useful even now have gone and the railway made damn sure they wasn't going back in.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&a...

They also got rid of entrances in and out of the steel works that they then asked to put back, sorry no we've re signaled the area now and it will cost to much.