Bahrain Protests
Discussion
allnighter said:
Jimbeaux said:
But you said it as it he stated it literally. Again, watch the video and see if it is all unplausible. I agree that the MB is a small minority in Egypt and is not given much creed; however, we have seen over and over the turmoil small minorities of anything can cause. Therefore, if the MB is Sunni, is it not at least worth scrutiny that they will clash with Shiites through means that may draw in the average Egyptian? Just asking.
First of all supporting and propping dictators is like playing with fire, soon or late you will burn your hands, and stating that is correct.However where he went wrong is his misinformed if not rediculous theory that somehow all Muslims sunny or Shiites are all united and they all gonna rise and squeeze Israel, Europe and the rest of the world.It smacks of extreme paranoia, and accute tinfoil-hatism.People are rising up against their leaders to demand food,wages and better living conditions.They don't care about world politics, Israel or any other country.
One consolation he should have in his Fox News Studio is that countries in those regions are never united, and never will be.Everyone looks out for themselves.
As to his concerns about Europe and the U.K. specifically; there is a far larger push there by certain groups to enact Sharia law and to force societal changes that favor Islamic traditions. It may not appear as such from where you sit, but it is a bit more visible to those outside looking in. That said, I don't think it is at a crisis level.
Rodimus said:
They have different demands. The small group that protested in pearl square demanded the release of prisoners who are murderers and terrorists. http://www.bna.bh/portal/en/news/447279
They were then given $3000 for each family. Moments later the government issued a raise in salaries by 20%. Bare in mind, Bahraini citizens get free education, free health care from government controlled hospitals, and housing ( however there is a waiting list on here). Not of that satisfied them.
The problem Bahrain has is that these groups of people are extremely violent and are backed up by Iran. If they were to be in positions like military, security forces, naval police, it would be so easy for them to use the weapons against their government. They publicly announce their loyalty to Iran. The last thing Bahrain would do is accept them into the military.
On February 13, a group of Shiites held a wedding ceremony. A few of them saw police patrolling the area and became aggressive towards them. Tear gas canisters and rubber bullets were fired at them. One officer hit a protester in the eye which caused internal bleeding and then became the first death.
On feb 14, protests started in small numbers. Police started patrolling the area where the first victim was killed. The family held a ceremony. Same crazy stuff happened and a second one dead.
Both officers were relieved from their duties and the king went public and apologised to the families. He made it clear to the people that change will come. This infuriated the Shiites and they decided to occupy the pearl roundabout and said they won't leave until they see these changes. New demands are made every time one of their demands are met. This time they said they weren't going to leave until the prime minister steps down.
Pearl roundabout (known as pearl square now by the media) is a major junction in the capital. The government had no choice but to issue a warning to them and give them 24hrs to leave. During those 24hrs, the govt had a tip off that the protesters are armed and are aiming to strike on friday. Another group of pro govt people planned on peacefully asking their Shiite fellow citizens to stop the violence. It is very likely that these two groups could clash. That's one theory, the other being that the grand mosque is located in juffair, a city that is mostly occupied by Americans and the same city where the U.S fifth fleet is based in. In the past, they have tried bombing the U.S base a couple of times in Bahrain. And finally the third reason is that the pearl roundabout sits in front of the banking region. It is very likely that they would target the banks to make their point.
At 3 am Thursday morning, riot police blocked six out of seven roads connected to the pearl roundabout and used a megaphone from all sides telling the protesters to leave or else the police will use force. Not a single one of them moved. Instead they shouted out "death to the king" "death to al khalifa". Tear gas, flash grenades, noise grenades were launched at them. Some charged towards the police while the majority fled the area. With tear gas in the air and only one way to go, there was a stampede resulting in the deaths of 3 more including the one with his brains spilled out as someone posted above. Many of the protesters took their cars and ran over policemen. Lots of them brutally attacked them with swords and knives. About 100 protesters were injured and 3 killed while 62 policemen were badly injured and 14 in critical condition. One of them died overnight while in intensive care. Later on , tanks were seen on the streets to secure the capital.
When police and soldiers were clearing the roundabout, they found a number of pistols, swords, machetes(sp?), and what looks like a great amount of home made ninja stars. If this was a peaceful demonstration, the police would react differently but weapons were found in the roundabout and sadly the media shows the viewers what they want to see and not facts. The BBC edited the video where they showed what happened in the square. They showed riot police firing tear gas and harmless citizens killed and rushed to hospitals where they said police attacked doctors who tried to help the injured. The people filming those policemen firing tear gas canisters are police camera men just incase people fabricate their own story. They don't show the police warning the crowd, they don't show the images of the police that were injured, they didn't show the amount of weapons found that showed carvings on the swords that look very similar to those that Hezbollah use. But negative publicity is what sells i guess.
www.youtube.com/video/KHjppYjB-Dw
This here is a link of it all. Unfortunately I can't seem to find a translated one but I would just like to make a few pointers throughout the clip.
At the beginning of the vid, the brigadier speaking explains exactly how it all happened. This vid was released after the protesters said police raided them while they were asleep. In this vid you see the police warning them to leave and riot police stepping in. Some people fled but the majority of them were in the roundabout chanting.
1:20 - you can see those homemade ninja stars. I have no idea if there is a name for them but there was boxes of them.
2:00 - if you can't stand looking at knife wounds, amputated fingers, and sword stabbed people then stop watching. Here it shows policemen stabbed with knives and swords, a few who have been run over by cars, a police man who was ganged up on and got his fingers chopped off.
6:37 - they show the weapons found on the roundabout which they took in for finger print
6:53 - the brigadier talking mentions the make of the guns found there to be smith&wesson .9mm guns
7:53 - one more gun shown, don't know what this one is.
The rest of the video, the brigadier states that there have been rumours of children being killed which was completely false and another statement that said that ambulances were being stopped by police which they said again is false and that they have images of all ambulances headed to the hospital.
And as I am typing this, I hear that thousands of pro govt supporters have already gathered. These Shiites in that roundabout will retaliate but they have no support from Sunnis, Shiite Persians, and more than half of their own Arab Shiites. And every time something like this happens, I wonder what exactly do they hope to accomplish if they miraculously gain leadership in Bahrain. All the other gulf countries are anti-irani govt. There was a leaked wiki leaks cable that said Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan all urged the US to attack Iran. The UAE and Egypt called the Persians evil.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran
So much to say about this......gonna just have to wait and see what happens next in the region.
Excellent post! So different than Egypt then. These folks have it rather well living-wise. The protestors are an odd slice of Shiites that support Iran and have Hezbollah-type weapons. As you say, nobody around there, including some other Shiites, support Iran except that patch of fools. Therefore, I would suspect they will be put back under their rock pretty soon.They were then given $3000 for each family. Moments later the government issued a raise in salaries by 20%. Bare in mind, Bahraini citizens get free education, free health care from government controlled hospitals, and housing ( however there is a waiting list on here). Not of that satisfied them.
The problem Bahrain has is that these groups of people are extremely violent and are backed up by Iran. If they were to be in positions like military, security forces, naval police, it would be so easy for them to use the weapons against their government. They publicly announce their loyalty to Iran. The last thing Bahrain would do is accept them into the military.
On February 13, a group of Shiites held a wedding ceremony. A few of them saw police patrolling the area and became aggressive towards them. Tear gas canisters and rubber bullets were fired at them. One officer hit a protester in the eye which caused internal bleeding and then became the first death.
On feb 14, protests started in small numbers. Police started patrolling the area where the first victim was killed. The family held a ceremony. Same crazy stuff happened and a second one dead.
Both officers were relieved from their duties and the king went public and apologised to the families. He made it clear to the people that change will come. This infuriated the Shiites and they decided to occupy the pearl roundabout and said they won't leave until they see these changes. New demands are made every time one of their demands are met. This time they said they weren't going to leave until the prime minister steps down.
Pearl roundabout (known as pearl square now by the media) is a major junction in the capital. The government had no choice but to issue a warning to them and give them 24hrs to leave. During those 24hrs, the govt had a tip off that the protesters are armed and are aiming to strike on friday. Another group of pro govt people planned on peacefully asking their Shiite fellow citizens to stop the violence. It is very likely that these two groups could clash. That's one theory, the other being that the grand mosque is located in juffair, a city that is mostly occupied by Americans and the same city where the U.S fifth fleet is based in. In the past, they have tried bombing the U.S base a couple of times in Bahrain. And finally the third reason is that the pearl roundabout sits in front of the banking region. It is very likely that they would target the banks to make their point.
At 3 am Thursday morning, riot police blocked six out of seven roads connected to the pearl roundabout and used a megaphone from all sides telling the protesters to leave or else the police will use force. Not a single one of them moved. Instead they shouted out "death to the king" "death to al khalifa". Tear gas, flash grenades, noise grenades were launched at them. Some charged towards the police while the majority fled the area. With tear gas in the air and only one way to go, there was a stampede resulting in the deaths of 3 more including the one with his brains spilled out as someone posted above. Many of the protesters took their cars and ran over policemen. Lots of them brutally attacked them with swords and knives. About 100 protesters were injured and 3 killed while 62 policemen were badly injured and 14 in critical condition. One of them died overnight while in intensive care. Later on , tanks were seen on the streets to secure the capital.
When police and soldiers were clearing the roundabout, they found a number of pistols, swords, machetes(sp?), and what looks like a great amount of home made ninja stars. If this was a peaceful demonstration, the police would react differently but weapons were found in the roundabout and sadly the media shows the viewers what they want to see and not facts. The BBC edited the video where they showed what happened in the square. They showed riot police firing tear gas and harmless citizens killed and rushed to hospitals where they said police attacked doctors who tried to help the injured. The people filming those policemen firing tear gas canisters are police camera men just incase people fabricate their own story. They don't show the police warning the crowd, they don't show the images of the police that were injured, they didn't show the amount of weapons found that showed carvings on the swords that look very similar to those that Hezbollah use. But negative publicity is what sells i guess.
www.youtube.com/video/KHjppYjB-Dw
This here is a link of it all. Unfortunately I can't seem to find a translated one but I would just like to make a few pointers throughout the clip.
At the beginning of the vid, the brigadier speaking explains exactly how it all happened. This vid was released after the protesters said police raided them while they were asleep. In this vid you see the police warning them to leave and riot police stepping in. Some people fled but the majority of them were in the roundabout chanting.
1:20 - you can see those homemade ninja stars. I have no idea if there is a name for them but there was boxes of them.
2:00 - if you can't stand looking at knife wounds, amputated fingers, and sword stabbed people then stop watching. Here it shows policemen stabbed with knives and swords, a few who have been run over by cars, a police man who was ganged up on and got his fingers chopped off.
6:37 - they show the weapons found on the roundabout which they took in for finger print
6:53 - the brigadier talking mentions the make of the guns found there to be smith&wesson .9mm guns
7:53 - one more gun shown, don't know what this one is.
The rest of the video, the brigadier states that there have been rumours of children being killed which was completely false and another statement that said that ambulances were being stopped by police which they said again is false and that they have images of all ambulances headed to the hospital.
And as I am typing this, I hear that thousands of pro govt supporters have already gathered. These Shiites in that roundabout will retaliate but they have no support from Sunnis, Shiite Persians, and more than half of their own Arab Shiites. And every time something like this happens, I wonder what exactly do they hope to accomplish if they miraculously gain leadership in Bahrain. All the other gulf countries are anti-irani govt. There was a leaked wiki leaks cable that said Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, and Jordan all urged the US to attack Iran. The UAE and Egypt called the Persians evil.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-saudis-iran
So much to say about this......gonna just have to wait and see what happens next in the region.
Deep rooted ethnic and religious differences have a large part to play in Middle Eastern politics. Indeed, many of these states are relatively new (mostly pose WW2 constructs in their current form) so the inhabitants don't have a huge amount of allegiance to the "nation state" idea nor its rulers.
I know this has been covered over on the Motor Sports thread but I think there is a fundamental flaw in the move F1 has made to these types of inherently unstable states.
I know this has been covered over on the Motor Sports thread but I think there is a fundamental flaw in the move F1 has made to these types of inherently unstable states.
Rodimus, while I have no doubt that you are far more aware of the situation than I am, I do question the accuracy of your timeline.
From the FT:
"Last Saturday saw the return of unrest to Bahrain’s streets, the atmosphere once more filled with the smell of tear gas.
Police broke up protests by a crowd made up mainly of women outside the home of Abduljalil al-Singace, the jailed opposition leader, who is in hospital after a heart attack while facing trial for allegedly plotting against the government."
That would suggest that the events started on the 5th, or possibly earlier.
From the FT:
"Last Saturday saw the return of unrest to Bahrain’s streets, the atmosphere once more filled with the smell of tear gas.
Police broke up protests by a crowd made up mainly of women outside the home of Abduljalil al-Singace, the jailed opposition leader, who is in hospital after a heart attack while facing trial for allegedly plotting against the government."
That would suggest that the events started on the 5th, or possibly earlier.
Jimbeaux said:
Excellent post! So different than Egypt then. These folks have it rather well living-wise. The protestors are an odd slice of Shiites that support Iran and have Hezbollah-type weapons. As you say, nobody around there, including some other Shiites, support Iran except that patch of fools. Therefore, I would suspect they will be put back under their rock pretty soon.
Depends what your definition of 'rather well' is.You may be correct in stating that it's only a tiny minority of Shias over there who support Iran and it's mercenaries but it's certainly not a minority who complain of widespread discrimination when it comes to healthcare, housing and government jobs. And try being a Shia and applying for a job in the security services over there - they'd rather use non Bahraini Sunnis than their own Shia citizens.
10 years ago their Emir signed off on a charter that mapped out the transition from an absolute to a constitutional monarchy - many over there, in particular the Shias, feel these pledges have not been fulfilled and the changes which have taken place are just superficial.
So dismissing what's happening over there just because they 'have it rather well' is a tad patronising. It may not be on the same scale as Egypt but I don't think these protests are going away any time soon.
Victor McDade said:
Jimbeaux said:
Excellent post! So different than Egypt then. These folks have it rather well living-wise. The protestors are an odd slice of Shiites that support Iran and have Hezbollah-type weapons. As you say, nobody around there, including some other Shiites, support Iran except that patch of fools. Therefore, I would suspect they will be put back under their rock pretty soon.
Depends what your definition of 'rather well' is.You may be correct in stating that it's only a tiny minority of Shias over there who support Iran and it's mercenaries but it's certainly not a minority who complain of widespread discrimination when it comes to healthcare, housing and government jobs. And try being a Shia and applying for a job in the security services over there - they'd rather use non Bahraini Sunnis than their own Shia citizens.
10 years ago their Emir signed off on a charter that mapped out the transition from an absolute to a constitutional monarchy - many over there, in particular the Shias, feel these pledges have not been fulfilled and the changes which have taken place are just superficial.
So dismissing what's happening over there just because they 'have it rather well' is a tad patronising. It may not be on the same scale as Egypt but I don't think these protests are going away any time soon.
Jimbeaux said:
It appears that Rodimus' rather detailed post might disagree with you. It suggests that the faction you claim cannot get hired in the security services is because that group would use those positions for their special interests.
'Faction'?The Shias make up 70% of the total population, it's hardly a faction.
Rodimus's post was interesting but as he's a member of the ruling Royal family (as he's said on here before) he's going to be slightly biased. Then again the accounts I've read in newspapers here will be equally as biased with the truth somewhere in between.
So whilst the treatment of Shias there might be improving, it's certainly not improving as quick as it should and these protests are the result.
If you have the time:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a4a99be-ccbd-11de-8e30-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
Victor McDade said:
'Faction'?
The Shias make up 70% of the total population, it's hardly a faction.
Rodimus's post was interesting but as he's a member of the ruling Royal family (as he's said on here before) he's going to be slightly biased. Then again the accounts I've read in newspapers here will be equally as biased with the truth somewhere in between.
So whilst the treatment of Shias there might be improving, it's certainly not improving as quick as it should and these protests are the result.
If you have the time:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a4a99be-ccbd-11de-8e30-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
I'm glad you mentioned that, it wasn't just me, but on reading rodimus's post the first thing I did was check his profile and yes he shares the same surname as the royal family 'al-khalifa'. Whilst that alone doesn't negate the value of his post, it does need to read with a pinch of salt to balance it out a bit ....... The Shias make up 70% of the total population, it's hardly a faction.
Rodimus's post was interesting but as he's a member of the ruling Royal family (as he's said on here before) he's going to be slightly biased. Then again the accounts I've read in newspapers here will be equally as biased with the truth somewhere in between.
So whilst the treatment of Shias there might be improving, it's certainly not improving as quick as it should and these protests are the result.
If you have the time:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a4a99be-ccbd-11de-8e30-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
Victor McDade said:
Jimbeaux said:
It appears that Rodimus' rather detailed post might disagree with you. It suggests that the faction you claim cannot get hired in the security services is because that group would use those positions for their special interests.
'Faction'?The Shias make up 70% of the total population, it's hardly a faction.
Rodimus's post was interesting but as he's a member of the ruling Royal family (as he's said on here before) he's going to be slightly biased. Then again the accounts I've read in newspapers here will be equally as biased with the truth somewhere in between.
So whilst the treatment of Shias there might be improving, it's certainly not improving as quick as it should and these protests are the result.
If you have the time:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a4a99be-ccbd-11de-8e30-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
HarryW said:
Victor McDade said:
'Faction'?
The Shias make up 70% of the total population, it's hardly a faction.
Rodimus's post was interesting but as he's a member of the ruling Royal family (as he's said on here before) he's going to be slightly biased. Then again the accounts I've read in newspapers here will be equally as biased with the truth somewhere in between.
So whilst the treatment of Shias there might be improving, it's certainly not improving as quick as it should and these protests are the result.
If you have the time:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a4a99be-ccbd-11de-8e30-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
I'm glad you mentioned that, it wasn't just me, but on reading rodimus's post the first thing I did was check his profile and yes he shares the same surname as the royal family 'al-khalifa'. Whilst that alone doesn't negate the value of his post, it does need to read with a pinch of salt to balance it out a bit ....... The Shias make up 70% of the total population, it's hardly a faction.
Rodimus's post was interesting but as he's a member of the ruling Royal family (as he's said on here before) he's going to be slightly biased. Then again the accounts I've read in newspapers here will be equally as biased with the truth somewhere in between.
So whilst the treatment of Shias there might be improving, it's certainly not improving as quick as it should and these protests are the result.
If you have the time:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a4a99be-ccbd-11de-8e30-...
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-eas...
Jimbeaux said:
Nothing against Victor either, but is it possible he has an interest that may harbor bias as well?
Do I have a dog in this fight? No, not really but I'm certainly not a fan of any of the Arab autocracies and it would be pleasing to see them fall. I know we like them because they bring stability to the region and are the lesser of all the evils etc but if the smaller nations like Bahrain do topple their Kings, then it would not be long before we see an uprising at the doors of the House of Saud Victor McDade said:
Jimbeaux said:
Nothing against Victor either, but is it possible he has an interest that may harbor bias as well?
Do I have a dog in this fight? No, not really but I'm certainly not a fan of any of the Arab autocracies and it would be pleasing to see them fall. I know we like them because they bring stability to the region and are the lesser of all the evils etc but if the smaller nations like Bahrain do topple their Kings, then it would not be long before we see an uprising at the doors of the House of Saud Frankeh said:
Picture allegedly from the Bahrain protests.
NSFW! A guys head is in less than perfect condition, and I think his brain is mostly missing.
http://twitpic.com/40ord5
I wish I hadn't clicked on that. I kind of hoped it was some kind of Egyptian style improvised headgear picture. That image will haunt me forever, fNSFW! A guys head is in less than perfect condition, and I think his brain is mostly missing.
http://twitpic.com/40ord5
king awful way to go, why they had to do that to him is beyond me.I saw NPR interviewing protestors who are stating that many in the crowd were hiding weapons and doing things that are not in the spirit of protest. I have the feeling that this will fizzle out in favor of the government.
Libya, on the other hand, is looking as if it may be in trouble (the government that is). While media access is far less prevelant, tweets, etc. are saying that the government forces have withdrawn from certain cities. That is usually an indication that they cannot hold them.
Libya, on the other hand, is looking as if it may be in trouble (the government that is). While media access is far less prevelant, tweets, etc. are saying that the government forces have withdrawn from certain cities. That is usually an indication that they cannot hold them.
Libya might be more like an Egypt situation i.e. a recognisable nation state with "Libyans" revolting against a long term dictator.
Bahrain has more of a rival Sunni/Shi-ite aspect to it.
The regime in Bahrain may not fall, bit its position as a stable base for the west's economic and military operations in that region may be over.
Bahrain has more of a rival Sunni/Shi-ite aspect to it.
The regime in Bahrain may not fall, bit its position as a stable base for the west's economic and military operations in that region may be over.
The Independent said:
The Sunni minority – with the al-Khalifa ruling family at its pinnacle – has largely cemented its hold on power. The king's uncle, Khalifa bin Salman al-Khalifa, has been the country's only prime minister since the modern state was founded in 1971. The authorities have used the Iranian spectre to suppress the Shia population politically, accusing them of plotting with their co-religionists in Iran to overthrow the state. This tactic has the double purpose of sowing dissent with Sunni liberals, who have at times aligned themselves with the Shia opposition.
Bahrain's Shia population has long complained of discrimination when it comes to healthcare, housing and government jobs. They are practically barred from employment in the security services. Bahrain is accused of populating the security forces with foreign Sunnis, lured with offers of citizenship, allegedly to shift the demographic balance in the favour of the Sunnis. But it is a strategy that seems to have backfired, angering Bahrain's Sunnis, who see the interlopers as taking their jobs.
Bahrain's Foreign Minister, Khalid al-Khalifa, said the violence was regrettable, but justified because the demonstrators were pushing the kingdom to the "brink of the sectarian abyss."
But images of riot police wading into the sleeping protest camp, using tear gas and force to remove the demonstrators, may only enrage the people further.
The Shia majority are Bahrainis not just some obscure ethnic group. Bahrain's Shia population has long complained of discrimination when it comes to healthcare, housing and government jobs. They are practically barred from employment in the security services. Bahrain is accused of populating the security forces with foreign Sunnis, lured with offers of citizenship, allegedly to shift the demographic balance in the favour of the Sunnis. But it is a strategy that seems to have backfired, angering Bahrain's Sunnis, who see the interlopers as taking their jobs.
Bahrain's Foreign Minister, Khalid al-Khalifa, said the violence was regrettable, but justified because the demonstrators were pushing the kingdom to the "brink of the sectarian abyss."
But images of riot police wading into the sleeping protest camp, using tear gas and force to remove the demonstrators, may only enrage the people further.
Sounds like all the elements are there for the beginning of a revolution.
Edited by el stovey on Saturday 19th February 08:41
Unless Iran do wade in this seems unlikely to succeed but does expose the ruler as a particularly ruthless despot and the more killing they do the worse this will get, some of the videos coming out are horrific. As mentioned Saudi are all over this fearing a similar uprising in their piggy bank that is their eastern region.
Jimbeaux said:
I saw NPR interviewing protestors who are stating that many in the crowd were hiding weapons and doing things that are not in the spirit of protest. I have the feeling that this will fizzle out in favor of the government.
Libya, on the other hand, is looking as if it may be in trouble (the government that is). While media access is far less prevelant, tweets, etc. are saying that the government forces have withdrawn from certain cities. That is usually an indication that they cannot hold them.
Here are some peaceful protesters deliberately targetted with live bullets.Libya, on the other hand, is looking as if it may be in trouble (the government that is). While media access is far less prevelant, tweets, etc. are saying that the government forces have withdrawn from certain cities. That is usually an indication that they cannot hold them.
Warning: Not for the faint hearted.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OH4ZIaGB0g&NR=...
Very emotive title. I can't help noticing that the video featured a large group of men marching towards the army (for some unknown reason) in a country where protests of that kind are illegal.
If the Bahraini government had released it with the title "Army repel criminal mob" would that be written off as just propaganda?
If the Bahraini government had released it with the title "Army repel criminal mob" would that be written off as just propaganda?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff