Brexit: would you change your vote.
Discussion
The Dangerous Elk said:
M3333 said:
+1
The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
There is only one side that is divided and will not back down and they are the remainers. It is they that have via May fought the very basic wish of the majority of British voters.The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Monday 10th December 19:45
Robertj21a said:
M3333 said:
ruggedscotty said:
I voted to leave.
I think we grasp this chance and give it all that we have, our economy hasn't tanked, there are the ones out there that worry that they are going to lose, banks ? The ones that nearly bankrupted us ? saying they will go to the Netherlands ? well guess what Fck off. fed up with all the terror and angst that these companies are wanting to spread just because they think that they will suffer....
No we take charge of our own destiny and make it happen for us. no need to pander to European directives, to follow what they want us to do just so that it gives them some thing? wait we send money to help them when we are in austerity.... like b
ks man.
lets start to look after ourselves.
I don't disagree with you but I guess that trying to negotiate with a block of 27 others, who have every intention of standing united, is a pretty tall order for anyone.I think we grasp this chance and give it all that we have, our economy hasn't tanked, there are the ones out there that worry that they are going to lose, banks ? The ones that nearly bankrupted us ? saying they will go to the Netherlands ? well guess what Fck off. fed up with all the terror and angst that these companies are wanting to spread just because they think that they will suffer....
No we take charge of our own destiny and make it happen for us. no need to pander to European directives, to follow what they want us to do just so that it gives them some thing? wait we send money to help them when we are in austerity.... like b
ks man. lets start to look after ourselves.
I can now see us leaving with no deal at all.
+1
The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
Surely it is upto the citizens of European nations to decide rather than a few elite leaders.
chunder27 said:
Voted leave because I wanted to leave, never understood free movement/free trade, wanted an end to that if possible, as the movement is highly one way in certain countries leading to plusses and minuses in those countries and massive problems in the places they leave too. That knock effect is not being discussed at all.
Detest the way mass immigration has totally changed the industry I work in (manufacturing) to the point where at least 3 companies I once worked for have gone bust in 10 years, not through competition but because of grants making Romania the new place of worship for accountants who run companies now. And lots of other smaller things, like communities being very different now, housing, education, NHS< all the usual being overwhelmed with 5 millin extra people and scores not on the books.
Wanted a reset, for everything. Simple as that. Can cope with years of bad for the eventual good.
People call leavers short term, far from it, a lot of us want to reset the whole thing, business will adjust and succeed eventually, hopefully on a better deal than we have up to now.
risk yes, but for me the benefits long term outweigh the short term navel staring or remainers.
So maufacturing collapsed in the UK due to immigration yet Romania is where its now at? I am very unsure how brexit is bringing back manufacturing for you. Detest the way mass immigration has totally changed the industry I work in (manufacturing) to the point where at least 3 companies I once worked for have gone bust in 10 years, not through competition but because of grants making Romania the new place of worship for accountants who run companies now. And lots of other smaller things, like communities being very different now, housing, education, NHS< all the usual being overwhelmed with 5 millin extra people and scores not on the books.
Wanted a reset, for everything. Simple as that. Can cope with years of bad for the eventual good.
People call leavers short term, far from it, a lot of us want to reset the whole thing, business will adjust and succeed eventually, hopefully on a better deal than we have up to now.
risk yes, but for me the benefits long term outweigh the short term navel staring or remainers.
You are right on businesses adjusting, CoL, airbus/bmw/honda/ et al are definitely doing that........
Your whole post underlines immigration as your main reason for voting leave. Thank you for your honesty.
kurt535 said:
So maufacturing collapsed in the UK due to immigration yet Romania is where its now at? I am very unsure how brexit is bringing back manufacturing for you.
You are right on businesses adjusting, CoL, airbus/bmw/honda/ et al are definitely doing that........
Your whole post underlines immigration as your main reason for voting leave. Thank you for your honesty.
It's already been explained to you that manufacturing didn't collapse in the UK.You are right on businesses adjusting, CoL, airbus/bmw/honda/ et al are definitely doing that........
Your whole post underlines immigration as your main reason for voting leave. Thank you for your honesty.
the big thing is that Europe knows this is the start of the end, they have kept up the smoke and mirrors for too long, and the countries with any real wealth have been propping up the poorer ones. One the UK separates it wont be long before Germany France and Italy all want out. One the sizable contribution that the UK made goes they will have a hole to fill that will choke the remaining countries. that is the big one.
just too many thinking the cash cow would keep on giving. we were being hoodwinked. grants being given to companies that made them shut shop and move to cheaper grant subsidised countries with no thought to us.
so we voted the blue collar workers chose to leave. the white collar didnt like that and the shirts and ties are terrified.
just too many thinking the cash cow would keep on giving. we were being hoodwinked. grants being given to companies that made them shut shop and move to cheaper grant subsidised countries with no thought to us.
so we voted the blue collar workers chose to leave. the white collar didnt like that and the shirts and ties are terrified.
ruggedscotty said:
Its done
we took a vote and voted to leave Europe.
All this talk about another vote ? Why ?
There are plenty of countries out there that are prospering without being part of Europe. And believe it or not were going to be out of Europe.
Hard exit please - this deal that we have is as Noel Edmunds would say No Deal. Its rank its full of pitfalls and is much worse than us saying goodbye.
What are we frightened off ? exactly ?
That the economy will tank.we took a vote and voted to leave Europe.
All this talk about another vote ? Why ?
There are plenty of countries out there that are prospering without being part of Europe. And believe it or not were going to be out of Europe.
Hard exit please - this deal that we have is as Noel Edmunds would say No Deal. Its rank its full of pitfalls and is much worse than us saying goodbye.
What are we frightened off ? exactly ?
Multiple international businesses use the UK as their foothold into the EU. They specifically want to be here because English is the international language of business, it’s the easiest country within the EU for them to operate.
However if you put tariffs and - the bigger concern in my industry (motor manufacturing) customs delays to just in time delivery operations - in the way then those businesses will get over the language barrier and go and build their products elsewhere. The knock on effect of this to our dependent supply chains will be catastrophic.
I would be quite open to the argument that ‘we could stand strong, make it on our own’ if we had any semblance of strong government that might make that situation likely. This lot couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery, so divided they are.
PurpleTurtle said:
That the economy will tank.
Multiple international businesses use the UK as their foothold into the EU. They specifically want to be here because English is the international language of business, it’s the easiest country within the EU for them to operate.
However if you put tariffs and - the bigger concern in my industry (motor manufacturing) customs delays to just in time delivery operations - in the way then those businesses will get over the language barrier and go and build their products elsewhere. The knock on effect of this to our dependent supply chains will be catastrophic.
I would be quite open to the argument that ‘we could stand strong, make it on our own’ if we had any semblance of strong government that might make that situation likely. This lot couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery, so divided they are.
When have we proposed adding tariffs, isn't it likely to be removing tariffs?Multiple international businesses use the UK as their foothold into the EU. They specifically want to be here because English is the international language of business, it’s the easiest country within the EU for them to operate.
However if you put tariffs and - the bigger concern in my industry (motor manufacturing) customs delays to just in time delivery operations - in the way then those businesses will get over the language barrier and go and build their products elsewhere. The knock on effect of this to our dependent supply chains will be catastrophic.
I would be quite open to the argument that ‘we could stand strong, make it on our own’ if we had any semblance of strong government that might make that situation likely. This lot couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery, so divided they are.
I think it is now looking rather more likely that we will have a chance to find out if anyone will change their vote.
May's deal is dead unless she can pull a rabbit out of the hat and come back from the EU with a solution to the backstop.
I can't see another conservative leader emerging and being able to carry enough authority to negotiate an alternative deal. Not when they are a replacement leader in the second Brexit related leadership contest taking the helm of a failed minority government.
I also can't see parliament sitting back and waiting for 'no deal' in Mar 19.
I think it is very likely that article 50 will be extended. Which gives time for a general election, but would also make it possible to have a new referendum. I think it will be very tempting for labour to offer one as a manifesto pledge.
If that happens, it's not going to be a choice between different leave deals. At this point it seems inevitable that a remain option will be back on the ballot.
Then again, who knows!
May's deal is dead unless she can pull a rabbit out of the hat and come back from the EU with a solution to the backstop.
I can't see another conservative leader emerging and being able to carry enough authority to negotiate an alternative deal. Not when they are a replacement leader in the second Brexit related leadership contest taking the helm of a failed minority government.
I also can't see parliament sitting back and waiting for 'no deal' in Mar 19.
I think it is very likely that article 50 will be extended. Which gives time for a general election, but would also make it possible to have a new referendum. I think it will be very tempting for labour to offer one as a manifesto pledge.
If that happens, it's not going to be a choice between different leave deals. At this point it seems inevitable that a remain option will be back on the ballot.
Then again, who knows!
Elysium said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
There is only one side that is divided and will not back down and they are the remainers. It is they that have via May fought the very basic wish of the majority of British voters.
This is possibly the maddest thing I have ever read. Remainers: We want to stay in the EU.
Brexiter #1: We want to be like Norway
Brexiter #2: No, Canada!
Brexiter #3: WE VOTED FOR NO DEAL
Brexiter #4: Let's just get on with May's deal
Brexiter #5: The will of the people was a ban on immigration
The Dangerous Elk: It's the Remainers who are divided!
pistonheads2018 said:
kurt535 said:
So maufacturing collapsed in the UK due to immigration yet Romania is where its now at? I am very unsure how brexit is bringing back manufacturing for you.
You are right on businesses adjusting, CoL, airbus/bmw/honda/ et al are definitely doing that........
Your whole post underlines immigration as your main reason for voting leave. Thank you for your honesty.
It's already been explained to you that manufacturing didn't collapse in the UK.You are right on businesses adjusting, CoL, airbus/bmw/honda/ et al are definitely doing that........
Your whole post underlines immigration as your main reason for voting leave. Thank you for your honesty.
manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
kurt535 said:
No, you're right, its just down 20% of gdp since 1970 ish
manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
Have you not noticed the decline in rural workers in Suffolk?manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
Apparently there is some new fangled s
t called A U T O M A T I O N, or summit.kurt535 said:
No, you're right, its just down 20% of gdp since 1970 ish
manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
It was already explained to you that other sectors have grown much faster (financial services) which explains the fall as a percentage of GDP. manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
Do you need it explained to you again?
As a reminder:
Tuna said:
Perhaps you should read the link that was provided, to educate yourself?
gooner1 said:
kurt535 said:
No, you're right, its just down 20% of gdp since 1970 ish
manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
Have you not noticed the decline in rural workers in Suffolk?manufacturing jobs as %of total employment:
1980: 25%
2010: 8.2%
Not a collapse though.
Apparently there is some new fangled s
t called A U T O M A T I O N, or summit.mx5nut said:
Elysium said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
There is only one side that is divided and will not back down and they are the remainers. It is they that have via May fought the very basic wish of the majority of British voters.
This is possibly the maddest thing I have ever read. Remainers: We want to stay in the EU.
Brexiter #1: We want to be like Norway
Brexiter #2: No, Canada!
Brexiter #3: WE VOTED FOR NO DEAL
Brexiter #4: Let's just get on with May's deal
Brexiter #5: The will of the people was a ban on immigration
The Dangerous Elk: It's the Remainers who are divided!
Remainers however will be accepting any mad bad or wine based idea the Eu comes up with for EVER, endless connotations to that.
PurpleTurtle said:
However if you put tariffs and - the bigger concern in my industry (motor manufacturing) customs delays to just in time delivery operations - in the way then those businesses will get over the language barrier and go and build their products elsewhere. The knock on effect of this to our dependent supply chains will be catastrophic.
Please, do explain why these companies will suffer, that are already AEO certified and making use of Inward Processing Reliefs?Or how delivery lead time effects the size of inventories, or gives a negative impact to supply chains?
Honda shops engines as part of a JIT supply chain to Japan... Two big oceans and a customs border. Yet Swindon hasn't lost it's business to Japan...
kurt535 said:
chunder27 said:
Voted leave because I wanted to leave, never understood free movement/free trade, wanted an end to that if possible,as the movement is highly one way in certain countries leading to plusses and minuses in those countries and massive problems in the places they leave too. That knock effect is not being discussed at all.
Detest the way mass immigration has totally changed the industry I work in (manufacturing) to the point where at least 3 companies I once worked for have gone bust in 10 years, not through competition but because of grants making Romania the new place of worship for accountants who run companies now. And lots of other smaller things, like communities being very different now, housing, education, NHS< all the usual being overwhelmed with 5 millin extra people and scores not on the books.
Wanted a reset, for everything. Simple as that. Can cope with years of bad for the eventual good.
People call leavers short term, far from it, a lot of us want to reset the whole thing, business will adjust and succeed eventually, hopefully on a better deal than we have up to now.
risk yes, but for me the benefits long term outweigh the short term navel staring or remainers.
So maufacturing collapsed in the UK due to immigration yet Romania is where its now at? I am very unsure how brexit is bringing back manufacturing for you. Detest the way mass immigration has totally changed the industry I work in (manufacturing) to the point where at least 3 companies I once worked for have gone bust in 10 years, not through competition but because of grants making Romania the new place of worship for accountants who run companies now. And lots of other smaller things, like communities being very different now, housing, education, NHS< all the usual being overwhelmed with 5 millin extra people and scores not on the books.
Wanted a reset, for everything. Simple as that. Can cope with years of bad for the eventual good.
People call leavers short term, far from it, a lot of us want to reset the whole thing, business will adjust and succeed eventually, hopefully on a better deal than we have up to now.
risk yes, but for me the benefits long term outweigh the short term navel staring or remainers.
You are right on businesses adjusting, CoL, airbus/bmw/honda/ et al are definitely doing that........
Your whole post underlines immigration as your main reason for voting leave. Thank you for your honesty.
I'm very much aligned with the points I've picked out in Bold but you didn't want to discuss those did you??
kurt535 said:
How strange, farmers on various news channels over the last year reckoned the rural decline they were experiencing was due to fewer EU workers coming over due to Brexit - soft fruit farms suffering as an example. You need to tell them they need to automate and stop fannying around with this hand picking rubbish. Gooner, you're a wasted genius.
.Thank you, but I think genius is slightly Ott
The automation was actually for the Manufacturing aspect, though I don't think
there is too much argument is has led to less need for manpower in every aspect of
manual work, would you not agree?
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