Could UK U-turn on Referendum Result (Vol 2)

[anonymous-user]

Greg66 said:

Look, we all know you're a dimwit. There's no need to labour the point.

How rude and boorish



The way remainers try and cover up their grief by trying to mock leavers is brilliant. You do make yourselves look ever so stupid.

[anonymous-user]

bmw535i said:

How rude and boorish



The way remainers try and cover up their grief by trying to mock leavers is brilliant. You do make yourselves look ever so stupid.

Absolutely pathetic attempt to make yourself look clever.

Put the quote in context:

Greg66 said:

Sylvaforever said:

This court farce is a worry for the future where a precedent is set to oppose a democratic result through the use of the judiciary who have proven to be out of date and out if touch.

Look, we all know you're a dimwit. There's no need to labour the point.

and even you will see it was directed towards *defending* the court process, which is itself *not* undermining Leave. Perhaps you don't understand that either, though the selective quoting makes me think you do, but you decided to be disingenuous instead.

It is very odd that the most zealous Leavers are also the most insecure, feeling the need to lash out all the time. There's probably a lesson there, but I really CBA'd.

[///ajd]

don'tbesilly said:

I did vote to leave the single market, by voting to leave the EU, membership of the Single market would be relinquished.

Cameron/Osborne stated as much prior to the referendum, Gove/Johnson stated the same, the evidence has been posted umpteen times.

Don't tell me I didn't vote to leave the single market, I did.

You have other leave voters here saying they didn't vote to leave the single market.

Do they have thick skulls?

[PRTVR]

Elysium said:

It is a simple statement of fact that the options on the ballot were leave or remain in the EU. I am not questioning the reason you voted. I am just pointing out that the single market was not mentioned on the ballot paper.

Leaving the single market is not a binary thing, there are levels of engagement. Terminology is a big issue here.

The EFTA states are in the single market in everything but name and I posted a link earlier in which Gove suggested pre-referendum that we would join EFTA if we voted to leave.

I strongly suspect that we will end up with a bespoke '3 freedom' membership of the single market. Rules are made to be broken.

May I ask what gives you the impression we will have a bespoke 3 freedom ?
please point me any statements coming out of the EU that gives you that opinion, because all I have heard is the opposite,
please stop listening to the voices in your head.

[Elysium]

PRTVR said:

Elysium said:

It is a simple statement of fact that the options on the ballot were leave or remain in the EU. I am not questioning the reason you voted. I am just pointing out that the single market was not mentioned on the ballot paper.

Leaving the single market is not a binary thing, there are levels of engagement. Terminology is a big issue here.

The EFTA states are in the single market in everything but name and I posted a link earlier in which Gove suggested pre-referendum that we would join EFTA if we voted to leave.

I strongly suspect that we will end up with a bespoke '3 freedom' membership of the single market. Rules are made to be broken.

May I ask what gives you the impression we will have a bespoke 3 freedom ?
please point me any statements coming out of the EU that gives you that opinion, because all I have heard is the opposite,
please stop listening to the voices in your head.

A great many leave voters have suggested that the EU will settle for a pragmatic outcome. Putting their economy ahead of the rhetoric. Bespoke arrangements already exist for the EFTA states and there is no reason to assume that this option will be closed to us.

The statements from the EU reinforcing the four freedoms are bluff and bluster at this point. Their force has diminished over time, which to me suggests a softening mood in the rest of Europe.

Nothing is fixed here.

[don'tbesilly]

///ajd said:

don'tbesilly said:

I did vote to leave the single market, by voting to leave the EU, membership of the Single market would be relinquished.

Cameron/Osborne stated as much prior to the referendum, Gove/Johnson stated the same, the evidence has been posted umpteen times.

Don't tell me I didn't vote to leave the single market, I did.

You have other leave voters here saying they didn't vote to leave the single market.

Do they have thick skulls?

Could you name them so they can respond to your claim they have thick skulls.

[PRTVR]

Elysium said:

PRTVR said:

Elysium said:

It is a simple statement of fact that the options on the ballot were leave or remain in the EU. I am not questioning the reason you voted. I am just pointing out that the single market was not mentioned on the ballot paper.

Leaving the single market is not a binary thing, there are levels of engagement. Terminology is a big issue here.

The EFTA states are in the single market in everything but name and I posted a link earlier in which Gove suggested pre-referendum that we would join EFTA if we voted to leave.

I strongly suspect that we will end up with a bespoke '3 freedom' membership of the single market. Rules are made to be broken.

May I ask what gives you the impression we will have a bespoke 3 freedom ?
please point me any statements coming out of the EU that gives you that opinion, because all I have heard is the opposite,
please stop listening to the voices in your head.

A great many leave voters have suggested that the EU will settle for a pragmatic outcome. Putting their economy ahead of the rhetoric. Bespoke arrangements already exist for the EFTA states and there is no reason to assume that this option will be closed to us.

The statements from the EU reinforcing the four freedoms are bluff and bluster at this point. Their force has diminished over time, which to me suggests a softening mood in the rest of Europe.

Nothing is fixed here.

Quite possibly, but do not rule out kamikaze tactics from the EU, they do have a gravy train to maintain.

[don'tbesilly]

Elysium said:

PRTVR said:

Elysium said:

It is a simple statement of fact that the options on the ballot were leave or remain in the EU. I am not questioning the reason you voted. I am just pointing out that the single market was not mentioned on the ballot paper.

Leaving the single market is not a binary thing, there are levels of engagement. Terminology is a big issue here.

The EFTA states are in the single market in everything but name and I posted a link earlier in which Gove suggested pre-referendum that we would join EFTA if we voted to leave.

I strongly suspect that we will end up with a bespoke '3 freedom' membership of the single market. Rules are made to be broken.

May I ask what gives you the impression we will have a bespoke 3 freedom ?
please point me any statements coming out of the EU that gives you that opinion, because all I have heard is the opposite,
please stop listening to the voices in your head.

A great many leave voters have suggested that the EU will settle for a pragmatic outcome. Putting their economy ahead of the rhetoric. Bespoke arrangements already exist for the EFTA states and there is no reason to assume that this option will be closed to us.

The statements from the EU reinforcing the four freedoms are bluff and bluster at this point. Their force has diminished over time, which to me suggests a softening mood in the rest of Europe.

Nothing is fixed here.

You think so?

I guess you missed Michel Barnier only three says ago stating the exact opposite to what you're suggesting above, he stated "the UK could not "cherry pick" on issues such as the single market".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38221140

By the way, relinquishing membership of the Single Market was on the ballot paper, it was inclusive of the choice of either staying in the European Union or leaving the European Union, leaving as was the choice of the electorate included leaving the single market.

You can dress it up all you like, it doesn't alter the fact.

[anonymous-user]

don'tbesilly said:

By the way, relinquishing membership of the Single Market was on the ballot paper, it was inclusive of the choice of either staying in the European Union or leaving the European Union, leaving as was the choice of the electorate included leaving the single market.

You can dress it up all you like, it doesn't alter the fact.

We may very well end up leaving the SM, but you need to brush up on your reading skills, and on the meaning of "fact".

[don'tbesilly]

Greg66 said:

don'tbesilly said:

By the way, relinquishing membership of the Single Market was on the ballot paper, it was inclusive of the choice of either staying in the European Union or leaving the European Union, leaving as was the choice of the electorate included leaving the single market.

You can dress it up all you like, it doesn't alter the fact.

We may very well end up leaving the SM, but you need to brush up on your reading skills, and on the meaning of "fact".

Maybe instead of making yourself look foolish you read the rights and obligations of the UK's membership of the European Union.

Then tell me what I'm stating is not fact.

[anonymous-user]

Greg66 said:

bmw535i said:

How rude and boorish



The way remainers try and cover up their grief by trying to mock leavers is brilliant. You do make yourselves look ever so stupid.

Absolutely pathetic attempt to make yourself look clever.

Put the quote in context:

Greg66 said:

Sylvaforever said:

This court farce is a worry for the future where a precedent is set to oppose a democratic result through the use of the judiciary who have proven to be out of date and out if touch.

Look, we all know you're a dimwit. There's no need to labour the point.

and even you will see it was directed towards *defending* the court process, which is itself *not* undermining Leave. Perhaps you don't understand that either, though the selective quoting makes me think you do, but you decided to be disingenuous instead.

It is very odd that the most zealous Leavers are also the most insecure, feeling the need to lash out all the time. There's probably a lesson there, but I really CBA'd.

those sleepless nights are catching up

[andymadmak]

Elysium said:

No one voted to leave the single market. You voted to leave the EU. I voted to remain in it.

Could you point out in my post where I said we were not leaving?

And there you go again. Making my point for me.

The primary players on both sides of the debate ( you know, the PM, the Chancellor, Gove etc) made it absolutely clear that a vote to leave the EU was a vote to leave the SM. It was also made clear in the official leaflet circulated (at great expense) to every household in the land. It was broadcast on TV and Radio, But hey, ardent Remainers claim it's not clear. Ardent Remainers will find someone somewhere that said SM exit was not mandatory and suddenly that's the kiddie we were all supposed to be listening to. Ardent Remainers point out that because it did not say explicitly on the ballot paper that we would also be voting to leave the SM then we did not vote for it. I could point out that that the ballot paper also did not say that the vote to leave the EU would result in 2 years of negotiation and uncertainty - but we all knew it did BECAUSE THE SAME BLOODY PEOPLE WHO TOLD US THIS WOULD BE THE CASE ALSO TOLD US WE WOULD BE VOTING TO LEAVE THE SM IF WE VOTED TO LEAVE THE EU!

I've come to realise that it really is just a few people on the Remain side who are the problem. Of the Remain voters I know, practically all of them have accepted the outcome (including exiting the SM) and are focussed on making the best of the future. It's just a few who have that devious little smile on their faces, who think they are being clever and playing some grand game, wilfully doing everything they can to obfuscate and delay, to talk down and wail like bereaved folk whenever anything appears in the media that they can celebrate as bad news.

Exit voters are not insecure, it's just that some exit voters are getting a little pissed off with those few Ardent Remainers with their transparent agenda, doublespeak and never ending tantrums. We've come to realise that the slights, insults, smears and general nastiness from them will never go away completely (witness slasher AJD and his constant returning to his "racist" meme) , but I suppose that it does still come as something of a shock to realise just how far the few Ardent Remainers will go in terms to trying to wreck the UK chances of negotiating a sensible exit deal, just so they can claim some sort of victory or "I told you so" moment.

Conceding that we are actually leaving (as you have done) means nothing.. what is important now is HOW we leave, and it's in that field of play that people like you are doing all you can to wreck it.

[W124]

There's absolutely zero chance of us leaving the single market.

[anonymous-user]

don'tbesilly said:

Maybe instead of making yourself look foolish you read the rights and obligations of the UK's membership of the European Union.

Then tell me what I'm stating is not fact.

This is about you reading (or not) what's on the ballot paper. Try to stay on the point.

[Fastdruid]

W124 said:

There's absolutely zero chance of us leaving the single market.

[don4l]

Greg66 said:

We may very well end up leaving the SM, but you need to brush up on your reading skills, and on the meaning of "fact".

There is no "may" about it.

We are leaving the Single Market.

826 days to go.

[anonymous-user]

In another pointless post bmw316 said:

those sleepless nights are catching up

Just for a day, try to contribute something of value to the discussion.

[andymadmak]

W124 said:

There's absolutely zero chance of us leaving the single market.

I disagree. I think we will leave, but we will have a deal that essentially lets us back in on different terms. The net result might be that we have not really left, but we have control over immigration (FMOP) , passporting rights etc
Both sides will claim victory.

However, securing the above will definitely require some movement / softening on the EU side. It's clear to me that UK Govt is already pushing in this direction.

[W124]

andymadmak said:

W124 said:

There's absolutely zero chance of us leaving the single market.

I disagree. I think we will leave, but we will have a deal that essentially lets us back in on different terms. The net result might be that we have not really left, but we have control over immigration (FMOP) , passporting rights etc
Both sides will claim victory.

However, securing the above will definitely require some movement / softening on the EU side. It's clear to me that UK Govt is already pushing in this direction.

Thank you for not reading a value judgement into my post.

It comes down to semantics in the end doesn't it? And I suppose you are right. Perception is the key here. I wonder if anybody involved really wants to maximise the effort of re-branding our existing arrangement with the EU. They will keep as much of it as they can possibly get away with in my opinion. It's a nightmare from a legal perspective. I think May is doing absolutely everything she can to avoid triggering A50. But time will tell.

[don'tbesilly]

Greg66 said:

don'tbesilly said:

Maybe instead of making yourself look foolish you read the rights and obligations of the UK's membership of the European Union.

Then tell me what I'm stating is not fact.

This is about you reading (or not) what's on the ballot paper. Try to stay on the point.

So relinquishing membership of the Single market not being on the ballot paper meant we could stay in the single market by leaving the EU, is that really what you are suggesting

Were you really that ignorant of what leaving the EU meant?

Did you not listen to Cameron/Osborne? Did you not listen to Gove/Johnson?

Was there anything else that wasn't spelt out on the ballot paper that you thought that by leaving the EU the UK could cling onto?

No wonder you're so upset, you thought foolishly that despite all the evidence presented to you pre the referendum that the UK on leaving the EU, could cherry pick what the UK wanted to cling onto.

Explains all the woe, you had no idea what the ballot paper spelt out to you, and you thought the Single Market and membership of such, was outside the UK's rights and obligations of being a member of the European Union.

What a chump you are, you should have asked your Mum, or a responsible adult what the referendum was all about.