Pope Benedict to resign??
Discussion
Rollcage said:
MartG said:
If more than 100 cardinals pray to God for guidance on choosing the new Pope, why didn't they reach a unanimous decision on the first ballot?
But, God moves in mysterious ways!In all seriousness, it will be down to the fallback of most Christian arguments - choice. God doesn't make anybody do anything, he just gives you choices.
You almost had me there...
Then I remembered all those bloody Chinese user manuals translated badly into Engrish...
mybrainhurts said:
George111 said:
Nice to see the PH atheists club still busy talking about the Pope 
As you were
Are you suggesting devout Christians would not see the Pope's club for the ugly organisation it is?As you were
George111 said:
mybrainhurts said:
George111 said:
Nice to see the PH atheists club still busy talking about the Pope
As you were
Are you suggesting devout Christians would not see the Pope's club for the ugly organisation it is?As you were
mybrainhurts said:
Rollcage said:
MartG said:
If more than 100 cardinals pray to God for guidance on choosing the new Pope, why didn't they reach a unanimous decision on the first ballot?
But, God moves in mysterious ways!In all seriousness, it will be down to the fallback of most Christian arguments - choice. God doesn't make anybody do anything, he just gives you choices.
You almost had me there...
Then I remembered all those bloody Chinese user manuals translated badly into Engrish...
George111 said:
. . . it's just interesting that more atheists seem to discuss religion than the religious . . .
A higher percentage of atheists seem to study religion than those who purport to be religious. I think it is cause and effect: you realise what religion is all about so you can't believe.Tell a believer that Jesus never said he was the son of a god or that Mary was not a virgin until the 18th C and they are shocked. Well, they normally suggest it is wrong. Mention the First Council of Nicea, where the Roman catholic church was invented, and most christians admit ignorance. Yet this is where the basis of their beliefs were decided, where certain gospels were accepted but the vast majority binned.
I find religion fascinating. Does anyone believe the miracle of the pilchards? These popes all seem intelligent so must look upon such stories with scepticism.
Religion is a subject that does not seem to be studied in the abstract. We get the Dawkins books of course, but these are from the point of view of an atheist who wants to spread the word. Evangelical is the word that springs to mind. There are a number of academic which just want to tell us why people are religious, whether they need it, what makes it so persistent, why, when observable phenomena directly contradict the teachings of such religions, the believers seem able to believe both but where is the popularist books, the television programmes, the insights into why, when all are so easy to disprove, they still exist in a time of the scientific method.
How can all the many, oh so many, Abrahamic religious sects suggest that theirs is the only way into their heavenly reward?
What about these religions that predict the end of the world, these raptures, continue after they have been proved so spectacularly wrong?
There is so much we could learn from the study of religions. Certainly considerably more than from the religions themselves.
Anyone not interested in 'Why religions' really ought to do a bit of reading on the subject. It is fascinating. Those who have will be drawn to discussions on religion. They are impossible to resist.
Derek Smith said:
George111 said:
. . . it's just interesting that more atheists seem to discuss religion than the religious . . .
A higher percentage of atheists seem to study religion than those who purport to be religious. I think it is cause and effect: you realise what religion is all about so you can't believe.On one of my recent Wikipedia sessions I ended up on the 'Holocaust' page, as you do... One of the links went to how it affected the world's population that spoke Yiddish, but also how the Orthodox Jews reconciled themselves with 'their God' given he allowed the genocide of nine million of the faithful.
Asterix said:
A mate of mine studied Theology at Oxford and went from being religious to an outspoken atheist.
On one of my recent Wikipedia sessions I ended up on the 'Holocaust' page, as you do... One of the links went to how it affected the world's population that spoke Yiddish, but also how the Orthodox Jews reconciled themselves with 'their God' given he allowed the genocide of nine million of the faithful.
The western catholic church banned education outside of church, where it had control, and limited it to their upper echelons. Those vicars who administered to the flock were normally all but illiterate and recited the latin from memory. Or something similar to what they learned. It was a massive crime against god when the bible was translated into native tongues. All the rubbish that the church had put out was suddenly exposed for what it was.On one of my recent Wikipedia sessions I ended up on the 'Holocaust' page, as you do... One of the links went to how it affected the world's population that spoke Yiddish, but also how the Orthodox Jews reconciled themselves with 'their God' given he allowed the genocide of nine million of the faithful.
The church's fear was that once the middle classes actually realised what was in the bible they would leave in droves but this proved wrong. Remarkably so.
With the rise of intelligent feminism has come a study of the way women are dealt with by religions. Some of the western catholic church's great and supposedly good have said things about women that are, to say the least, shocking. I always assumed that the church would give much greater access to the church to women but this has not come about, presumably for the same reason as translating the bible.
The western catholic church's congregations are ageing, and fastger than the population as a whole. It is becoming, in the west at least, dominated by women. One might assume that as time goes on and younger women take up the rolls and coffee cups abandoned by their ageing forebears then there will be irresistible pressure to modernise.
Religious studies, and especially comparative religion, convinced me that the answers were not going to come from the various religious movements. I come from a catholic family although neither of my parents were. They allowed me, much against the matriarchy's demands, to go my own way. I was inclined to believe at first but once I started looking it all seemed so evanescent. I remember talking to one vicar about the biblical myths being predated by those of other religions, notably virgin births and floods. He suggested that timing wasn't everything. To give him his due, he was a believing in evolution and accepted that the Adam and Eve story was just a way of explaining the unexplainable.
Asterix said:
A mate of mine studied Theology at Oxford and went from being religious to an outspoken atheist.
On one of my recent Wikipedia sessions I ended up on the 'Holocaust' page, as you do... One of the links went to how it affected the world's population that spoke Yiddish, but also how the Orthodox Jews reconciled themselves with 'their God' given he allowed the genocide of nine million of the faithful.
There is an excellent monologue in a play/movie called 'God on trial'. On one of my recent Wikipedia sessions I ended up on the 'Holocaust' page, as you do... One of the links went to how it affected the world's population that spoke Yiddish, but also how the Orthodox Jews reconciled themselves with 'their God' given he allowed the genocide of nine million of the faithful.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkZbd8AFmn8
George111 said:
Nobody does do they ? It's not ugly . . . it's just interesting that more atheists seem to discuss religion than the religious . . .
You are quite right there. It's a shame more religious people don't speak up more when a the Chruch tells a Aids ridden country that using condoms is a sin and not to do it.Sadly, I would get your dumb religion forced on me at every chance if people didn't fight it, so we may well discuss it more, but then discussion is better than being a silent sheep.
Edited by Mr_B on Thursday 14th March 14:33
escargot said:
mybrainhurts said:
Rollcage said:
MartG said:
If more than 100 cardinals pray to God for guidance on choosing the new Pope, why didn't they reach a unanimous decision on the first ballot?
But, God moves in mysterious ways!In all seriousness, it will be down to the fallback of most Christian arguments - choice. God doesn't make anybody do anything, he just gives you choices.
You almost had me there...
Then I remembered all those bloody Chinese user manuals translated badly into Engrish...
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