Brexit: would you change your vote.
Discussion
M3333 said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
M3333 said:
+1
The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
There is only one side that is divided and will not back down and they are the remainers. It is they that have via May fought the very basic wish of the majority of British voters.The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Monday 10th December 19:45
gooner1 said:
kurt535 said:
How strange, farmers on various news channels over the last year reckoned the rural decline they were experiencing was due to fewer EU workers coming over due to Brexit - soft fruit farms suffering as an example. You need to tell them they need to automate and stop fannying around with this hand picking rubbish. Gooner, you're a wasted genius.
.Thank you, but I think genius is slightly Ott
The automation was actually for the Manufacturing aspect, though I don't think
there is too much argument is has led to less need for manpower in every aspect of
manual work, would you not agree?
pistonheads2018 said:
kurt535 said:
I completely agree on automation but output is slipping and brexit is a direct reason for this.
So no manufacturing collapse then?kurt535 said:
Its collapsing in more areas than its growing due to the vote. Im assuming you are aware of job losses and, probably more important, investment no longer coming to the uk in our manufacturing sector? I refer you to JLR/airbus/bmw/hondaetc etc and what they are saying. Its also firms like shaeffler. I'd never heard of them until their closure was mentioned by a a friend who works in the offshore industry. Lumps of these types of jobs are falling by the wayside every month but apparently brexit doctrine doesn't think this is a problem.
1. Define collapsing.2. Provide evidence that it is Brexit related
3. What has happened to unemployment figures since 2016?
4. I recall you’re an ‘expert’ on Pharma in Surrey, what has happened to those companies since 2016?
Edited by pistonheads2018 on Monday 10th December 22:53
don'tbesilly said:
alfie2244 said:
So where are Schaeffler relocating to..the EU so they keep the "advantages it brings"?
Strangely nothing comes up on Google about them [Schaeffler] relocating anywhere?"Uncertainty surrounding Brexit has brought forward timing ............The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market"
https://www.schaeffler.com/content.schaeffler.com/...
alfie2244 said:
don'tbesilly said:
alfie2244 said:
So where are Schaeffler relocating to..the EU so they keep the "advantages it brings"?
Strangely nothing comes up on Google about them [Schaeffler] relocating anywhere?"Uncertainty surrounding Brexit has brought forward timing ............The uncertainty surrounding Brexit was one factor amongst others in the analysis of the UK market"
https://www.schaeffler.com/content.schaeffler.com/...
I guess the same applies to the nameless 'Big Pharma company' in Surrey from 2016.
kurt535 said:
How strange, farmers on various news channels over the last year reckoned the rural decline they were experiencing was due to fewer EU workers coming over due to Brexit - soft fruit farms suffering as an example. You need to tell them they need to automate and stop fannying around with this hand picking rubbish. Gooner, you're a wasted genius.
Brexit is just a convenient excuse yes it may have speeded it up but what we are seeing is the inevitable conclusion of the progress of European labour.This notion that these people would continue like a endless stream turning up year after year doing the same low Grade jobs at low pay that we won't do is laughable.
This idea that they somehow think or behave fundamental different to us. That either hard working capable individuals will somehow continue to do types of jobs and ignore other opportunities available.
Or less motivated capable individuals will also continue doing these jobs once they realise that there are other ways of making the same amount of money by doing far less just like our own population.
Compound this by the fact that the nations that these people have been coming from have seen quite significant economic growth. Benefiting from being net beneficiaries of the EU budgets and investment. Then add that to the 10 billion pounds plus a year that goes through remittances just from our nation alone.
It all lead's to the fact that it's all becomeing far less of a beneficial prospects to come and work your arse off in a wet uk field for a wage that doesn't go as far it used to.
Like I said brexit may have speeded it up with lower pound and the arguable less welcoming environment which don't believe myself. But it was going to happen anyway.
wc98 said:
very, very good post. people from every background voted both leave and remain. i think the only homogeneous group of remain voters i can think of are bbc employees 
.
regarding the op. no i will not be changing my vote should there be another referendum. my youngest daughter turns 18 in just over a week, so that would be another leave vote added to the 17.4 million previous votes
Is your daughter not allowed to have organic thoughts and thus votes of her own?.regarding the op. no i will not be changing my vote should there be another referendum. my youngest daughter turns 18 in just over a week, so that would be another leave vote added to the 17.4 million previous votes
Can anyone explain why the ability to vote in a new bunch of useless tossers that barely changes anything every 5 years makes much difference versus a bunch of unelected tossers?
I personally see our government as worse politicians than the EU government. They've shown as much at the negotiating table.
I'll never, ever understand why it would matter than we can't elect EU officials and can elect our own when literally every single one of our politicians could be shot dead and not one of us would feel any difference, they're that useless and disposable*.
I personally see our government as worse politicians than the EU government. They've shown as much at the negotiating table.
I'll never, ever understand why it would matter than we can't elect EU officials and can elect our own when literally every single one of our politicians could be shot dead and not one of us would feel any difference, they're that useless and disposable*.
- I'm really not advocating anyone try this out in practice. Don't shoot politicians, nor anyone else for that matter please.
Sway said:
Please, do explain why these companies will suffer, that are already AEO certified and making use of Inward Processing Reliefs?
Rules of origin, surely?If a company exports (say) brakes from UK to a German manufacturer, and an EU-Japan FTA requires x% of the cars to "originate" from the EU, those parts will no longer count, or not to the same extent.
silentbrown said:
Sway said:
Please, do explain why these companies will suffer, that are already AEO certified and making use of Inward Processing Reliefs?
Rules of origin, surely?If a company exports (say) brakes from UK to a German manufacturer, and an EU-Japan FTA requires x% of the cars to "originate" from the EU, those parts will no longer count, or not to the same extent.
ETA - to give you an idea, RoO doesn't have an impact on Japan sourcing the second most expensive assembly of a car from Swindon (under a JIT supply chain too!).
Edited by Sway on Tuesday 11th December 08:48
gooner1 said:
The automation was actually for the Manufacturing aspect, though I don't think
there is too much argument is has led to less need for manpower in every aspect of
manual work, would you not agree?
Our factory makes use of temporary workers to provide enough support to keep things running smoothly during the summer period where there's a large number of people on holiday. This year, the agencies we use were really struggling to provide enough people, and said that a lot of the mainland EU workers they normally hadn't come over this time.there is too much argument is has led to less need for manpower in every aspect of
manual work, would you not agree?
Can't prove it's Brexit related, but this has never happened before (in 2016 they would already have arranged to come over prior to the referendum).
It's more on a "seriously annoying" level than ruinous to the business, but it's not just unskilled farm labour etc that can be impacted by temporary migrant workers choosing to stay home.
I appreciate there's an argument that their choice is likely driven by the uncertainty of the current limbo, and Brexit going ahead and being done with - and thus meaning the rules for them are clearly set out - would resolve it.
F1GTRUeno said:
Can anyone explain why the ability to vote in a new bunch of useless tossers that barely changes anything every 5 years makes much difference versus a bunch of unelected tossers?
Agreed, tossers in Parliament & tossers in Brussels; we don't need both. Removing a layer of beurocratic tossers from our lives is a good thing. The EU tossers make decisions based upon their perceived needs of many disparate countries. The UK tossers should be free to make decisions based upon the specific needs of our nations.F1GTRUeno said:
I personally see our government as worse politicians than the EU government. They've shown as much at the negotiating table.
It is clear that very few UK politicians have been involved; Brexit negotiations have been autocratic ( TM + her three favoured civil service SPADS. Ed de Minkhwitz, Denzil Davidson and Olly Robbins ). TM has attempted to placate both sides; the end result has been to alienate both. She is and always has been a remainer; she has tried to foil the process at every turn with a long term view of either overturning the referendum result or BRINO. F1GTRUeno said:
I'll never, ever understand why it would matter than we can't elect EU officials and can elect our own when literally every single one of our politicians could be shot dead and not one of us would feel any difference, they're that useless and disposable*.
F1GTRUeno said:
Can anyone explain why the ability to vote in a new bunch of useless tossers that barely changes anything every 5 years makes much difference versus a bunch of unelected tossers?
You make a good point - AA Gill constructed this very argument before the referendum , he wrote "it makes not a jot of difference to you or me if the Supreme Court is a bunch of strangely out-of-touch old gits in wigs in Westminster or a load of strangely out-of-touch old gits without wigs in Luxembourg."However, many who voted out were voting on the basis of trying to halt the mission creep of the EU. What started as a laudable notion of countries in a common market being able to trade freely, morphed into the political ambitions of a federal state - that, for me, is at the centre of the debate. I don't want to be part of a super state governed by bureaucrats in Strasburg and Brussels, I really don't. Arguing that we were at the 'top table' is risible nonsense - we were completely impotent.
Control over our borders is, in practice, a bit of a sideshow - we have greater immigration from outside of the EU. However, it is the idea that we are ceding control that is troublesome. This doesn't mean Brexiteers are racist, but merely a recognition that a sovereign nation should retain control - not to reduce numbers and kick people out, but to maintain our rights over the country's borders. And this, of course, is only one element of the debate, but it's one that's taken undue prominence as Remainers reach for their Xenophobe cards.
Randy Winkman said:
M3333 said:
The Dangerous Elk said:
M3333 said:
+1
The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
There is only one side that is divided and will not back down and they are the remainers. It is they that have via May fought the very basic wish of the majority of British voters.The reason we are in this current situation is having a leader so weak she has pandered to what the EU want. A leader who never believed in Brexit or how as a nation we will bounce back and flourish without the EU. Apparently she is a bloody difficult woman but she certainly hasn't played hard ball at all with the EU elite and they have predictably walked all over us, using the Irish border as a huge headache to complicate things. Watching Parliament today it is embarrassing how the EU are playing divide and rule beautifully as the whole country looks on in disbelief.
Edited by The Dangerous Elk on Monday 10th December 19:45
I voted remain, but I would now vote leave - What's more I'd be getting out without a deal if neccessary.
Irrespective of the deal cooked up between the EU and May, I feel that the EU itself is on a slippery slope. The currency is unsustainable, and the Target2 stuff is a ticking time bomb. I give it ten years at the most before the EU turns into an economic s
t show, and the more disconnected we are from it the better.
Irrespective of the deal cooked up between the EU and May, I feel that the EU itself is on a slippery slope. The currency is unsustainable, and the Target2 stuff is a ticking time bomb. I give it ten years at the most before the EU turns into an economic s
t show, and the more disconnected we are from it the better.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff