Would you install and use an NHS Covid tracking app?

[pip t]

Article in the FT

https://www.ft.com/content/2235aebe-c4c3-408d-a829...

Behind a paywall, but the TLDR is:

- App still weeks away from release
- May test an update on IoW first before national release
- Govt does not rule out switching to the Apple/ Google system

Purely speculation, but on iOS at least the 'Gold Master' (The final beta version of a software release) of the iOS update that enables the contact tracing API should be released this week, suggesting the software update on iOS should be publicly available very soon.

This would make it feasible to publicly test drive an Apple/ Google version of the app (This would be impossible before the software update as it wouldn't run on iPhones that didn't have the API).

So potentially waiting to test drive the Apple/ Google system before committing to one or the other?

[dandarez]

fblm said:

Electro1980 said:

Digga said:

lufbramatt said:

For iOS users, have a look at "frequent locations" in the privacy settings. It will give you a nice accurate list of all the places you've been. Now, this list is supposedly encrypted, but all the info is there already on your phone....

It's staggering and frightening.

On VE day we were sat out front in the street and, at a safe social distance, a mate I ride MTB with and his wife and kids passed and we had a 5 min chat. His wife's nice but not a Facebook mate, but the next morning showed as a suggested connection.

There was no FB post or "tagging" that prompted this, it was purely from FB's own data.

Edited by Digga on Friday 15th May 10:31

She probably looked you up on Facebook later.

You're in there Digga!

This is what I like about PHs, the quips!

[Zirconia]

Well, one review on security (tested rather than view I suppose, someone with more where withall?).
http://stateofit.com/UKContactTracing/

And a reply
https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/nhs-covid-19-app...

[g3org3y]

Good work.

article said:

Outsourcing firm Serco has apologised after accidentally sharing the email addresses of almost 300 contact tracers.

The company is training staff to trace cases of Covid-19 for the UK government.

It made the error when it emailed new trainees to tell them about training.

Serco said it had apologised and would review its processes "to make sure that this does not happen again".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-52732818

[grumbledoak]

Utterly predictable.

[pip t]

Well NHSX, ball’s in your court. Any iPhone capable of running iOS 13 can now run a privacy respecting, secure contact tracing app that works in the background properly.



For those of an Android flavour, I believe that update through Play Services is available now too.

Or, you know, we could wait till sometime in June for a half baked app that may not function properly.....

[Zirconia]

Settings are in Privacy>health then a message saying not available in your country (obvs).

Something going on with Northern Ireland, I understand they will be in line with Republic of Ireland?

Goings on in the meetings there today. Not sure I got the gist of it. Looks like they do a fleetwood mac.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-irelan...
14:55

Back to the NHS app
https://twitter.com/PrivacyMatters/status/12631402...

[pip t]

Zirconia said:

Settings are in Privacy>health then a message saying not available in your country (obvs).

Something going on with Northern Ireland, I understand they will be in line with Republic of Ireland?

Goings on in the meetings there today. Not sure I got the gist of it. Looks like they do a fleetwood mac.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-northern-irelan...
14:55

Back to the NHS app
https://twitter.com/PrivacyMatters/status/12631402...

Northern Ireland has elected to go with it's own app (Using Apple/ Google) rather than the NHSX app, so that it can be compatible with the Irish system (Also Apple/ Google).

[Klippie]

Working for the NHS and using their tech on a daily basis I'd be amazed if this works at all.

[Megaflow]

pip t said:

Well NHSX, ball’s in your court. Any iPhone capable of running iOS 13 can now run a privacy respecting, secure contact tracing app that works in the background properly.



For those of an Android flavour, I believe that update through Play Services is available now too.

Or, you know, we could wait till sometime in June for a half baked app that may not function properly.....

Apologies for being simple, but does that mean Apple beat the NHS with a tracking system, or does the NHS need to do something with what Apple have done? Or are they two separate entities?

[edh]

Megaflow said:

pip t said:

Well NHSX, ball’s in your court. Any iPhone capable of running iOS 13 can now run a privacy respecting, secure contact tracing app that works in the background properly.



For those of an Android flavour, I believe that update through Play Services is available now too.

Or, you know, we could wait till sometime in June for a half baked app that may not function properly.....

Apologies for being simple, but does that mean Apple beat the NHS with a tracking system, or does the NHS need to do something with what Apple have done? Or are they two separate entities?

This is just the underlying component that will allow decentralised covid apps to work on iphones. Countries still need to build something to work on top of this

[Jakg]

Megaflow said:

Apologies for being simple, but does that mean Apple beat the NHS with a tracking system, or does the NHS need to do something with what Apple have done? Or are they two separate entities?

Apple (& Google) have created a framework to do the mechanics of identifying exposure.

Developers can then build an application using this framework.

NHSX (well VMWare or whatever) built an application, but made their own also the exposure / matching / "tracking" (whatever you want to call it) framework too.

Think of the Apple/Google thing as a crate engine supplied with an ECU - on it's own it does nothing.

You can build your car using an off the shelf engine, or you can make your own.
But unlike the typical car world - where you might start with an off the shelf engine and then maybe make your own in the future, some nations have started with their own exposure system and are some are now moving to the Apple/Google one.

[Megaflow]

Thanks guys

[plasticpig]

pip t said:

Well NHSX, ball’s in your court. Any iPhone capable of running iOS 13 can now run a privacy respecting, secure contact tracing app that works in the background properly.



For those of an Android flavour, I believe that update through Play Services is available now too.

Or, you know, we could wait till sometime in June for a half baked app that may not function properly.....

We would have to wait till June for an NHSX app using the Apple\Google API. There is no technical reason I can see that a single app can't implement both solutions. So launch with what they have now and include the Apple\Google solution in a future version of the app.

[pip t]

plasticpig said:

We would have to wait till June for an NHSX app using the Apple\Google API. There is no technical reason I can see that a single app can't implement both solutions. So launch with what they have now and include the Apple\Google solution in a future version of the app.

True, but if my hazy memory serves me correct, while there may be no technical reason, there is an ideological reason, in that the conditions of being allowed to use the Apple/ Google API include not using a centralised system of data collection. So I guess we could use the NHSX system then swap systems in an update, but I’m fairly sure they wouldn’t be permitted to run both concurrently.

[Zirconia]

NI are not going to encourage users to download the NHS app. Looks like two versions could be allowed but only one if based on Apple/Google? Wonder if Apple will see an issue with both at a later date and do one of their updates.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-northern-ir...

[pip t]

Zirconia said:

NI are not going to encourage users to download the NHS app. Looks like two versions could be allowed but only one if based on Apple/Google? Wonder if Apple will see an issue with both at a later date and do one of their updates.
https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-northern-ir...

Essentially A/G will not allow their API to be used by an app that uses a centralised method of contact matching. So yes, you could have two completely separate apps - one using a decentralised method and using the API, and one using a centralised method that could not use the API. I doubt they would allow both systems to be in the same app.

I don't see them deliberately borking either system with an update. The NHSX app meets the requirements for the App Store, which is why it doesn't work (Technically) as well as it could. If they deliberately updated to cause problems for the centralised apps the publicity wouldn't be good. They won't deliberately break their own API with an update - it's the version they've approved and that they want people to use. What they have said is that when the pandemic is deemed to be over (Whatever that means!) they will disable the API again.

To be honest, the whole thing is more and more being played down by the govt as part of the test, track and trace. There's a bit of me that wonders if it'll ever see the light of day in terms of a general public release.

Edited by pip t on Friday 22 May 12:02

[M4cruiser]

pip t said:

To be honest, the whole thing is more and more being played down by the govt as part of the test, track and trace. There's a bit of me that wonders if it'll ever see the light of day in terms of a general public release.

Edited by pip t on Friday 22 May 12:02

To be fair to the UK government they did say the IOW trial was a "trial". That means to assess the results and decide from there whether and/or how to proceed.

[pip t]

M4cruiser said:

To be fair to the UK government they did say the IOW trial was a "trial". That means to assess the results and decide from there whether and/or how to proceed.

Oh absolutely - you'd hope they won't try and ram through anything that doesn't work properly.

We've just gone from "It's vital and it's your duty to download it," to "Meh, it's only part of the system and the human contact tracers are more important, so it doesn't matter that it's delayed."

Obviously I'm paraphrasing, but that's the general direction of travel.

[Zirconia]

At the moment, those entering the UK will be encouraged to download the app. This stands in the statement by the health secretary dated 22nd.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/home-secretary-...

Still not sure they are done with it yet.