Uber are getting shirty
Discussion
TFL said:
Transport for London (TfL) has today (Friday 22 September) informed Uber London Limited that it will not be issued with a private hire operator licence after expiry of its current licence on 30 September.
TfL's regulation of London's taxi and private hire trades is designed to ensure passenger safety. Private hire operators must meet rigorous regulations, and demonstrate to TfL that they do so, in order to operate. TfL must also be satisfied that an operator is fit and proper to hold a licence.
TfL has concluded that Uber London Limited is not fit and proper to hold a private hire operator licence.
TfL considers that Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications. These include:
Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.
The Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998 includes provision to appeal a licensing decision within 21 days of it being communicated to the applicant. Uber London Limited can continue to operate until any appeal processes have been exhausted.
No further comment will be made by TfL pending any appeal of this decision
All of those seem to be easy for any reasonable company to change, can't see why Uber can't. They continue to operate in the meantime anyway.TfL's regulation of London's taxi and private hire trades is designed to ensure passenger safety. Private hire operators must meet rigorous regulations, and demonstrate to TfL that they do so, in order to operate. TfL must also be satisfied that an operator is fit and proper to hold a licence.
TfL has concluded that Uber London Limited is not fit and proper to hold a private hire operator licence.
TfL considers that Uber's approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility in relation to a number of issues which have potential public safety and security implications. These include:
Its approach to reporting serious criminal offences.
Its approach to how medical certificates are obtained.
Its approach to how Enhanced Disclosure and Barring Service (DBS) checks are obtained.
Its approach to explaining the use of Greyball in London - software that could be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to the app and prevent officials from undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.
The Private Hire Vehicles (London) Act 1998 includes provision to appeal a licensing decision within 21 days of it being communicated to the applicant. Uber London Limited can continue to operate until any appeal processes have been exhausted.
No further comment will be made by TfL pending any appeal of this decision
All these idiots that have signed the petition - laughable given Uber aren't actually banned from the streets of London.
jamoor said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Not really, they could have just done what the regulator wanted and they'd have had their license renewed.
They chose not to do so.
Uber only have themselves to blame, but oddly their email didn't mention this.
They've always been legal in the UK, other countries they've been entirely illegall.They chose not to do so.
Uber only have themselves to blame, but oddly their email didn't mention this.
This isn't some arbitrary decision to stop Uber doing business for no reason.
This is the regulator deciding Uber aren't fit to hold a license on the grounds of "public safety and security".
Uber had the choice to comply or not to comply and true to form they decided the rules don't apply to them.
turbomoped said:
according to the BBC this morning 300000 people have already signed a petition.
Sounds a lot for something of such minor concern to people.
Who do you think can sign it? Anyone, I.e globally. Plus people sign without considering the facts. Just 'oh no! Imagine Uber closed in my city too'!Sounds a lot for something of such minor concern to people.
miniman said:
All the benefits of Uber are available with black cabs via Gett, Hailo and other services. You get the advantages of a black cab (can go in bus lanes, has fundamental grasp of where you are heading, can easily circumnavigate traffic) and Uber (cashless, receipts, driver not likely to refuse to go saarf of the river). The few times I've used Uber I've ended up in a manky Prius stuck in a queue that, despite having 3 phones stuck to the windscreen, the driver has neither the ability nor the inclination to avoid.
I downloaded Gett this morning to check it out in case Uber is canned for good. I checked identical journeys I've take recently on Uber, at similar times of day, Gett was 40-50% more expensive. And in no way cheaper than hailing a black cab for that journey. I'm not a fan of black cabs anyway - uncomfortable, bouncy, slithery-seated, not airconditioned. They are stuck in the last century in more ways than one, servicing the drivers instead of the punters. Whoozit said:
miniman said:
All the benefits of Uber are available with black cabs via Gett, Hailo and other services. You get the advantages of a black cab (can go in bus lanes, has fundamental grasp of where you are heading, can easily circumnavigate traffic) and Uber (cashless, receipts, driver not likely to refuse to go saarf of the river). The few times I've used Uber I've ended up in a manky Prius stuck in a queue that, despite having 3 phones stuck to the windscreen, the driver has neither the ability nor the inclination to avoid.
I downloaded Gett this morning to check it out in case Uber is canned for good. I checked identical journeys I've take recently on Uber, at similar times of day, Gett was 40-50% more expensive. And in no way cheaper than hailing a black cab for that journey. I'm not a fan of black cabs anyway - uncomfortable, bouncy, slithery-seated, not airconditioned. They are stuck in the last century in more ways than one, servicing the drivers instead of the punters. Burwood said:
Try getting a Black Cab in the West End after 1am. 'Where you going?Err Canary Wharf...awh sorry mate I'm just on my way home'. Bunch of tossers. They let Uber walk through the front door. Don't take machines
Didn't Uber just undercut the black cabs by about 40% and proliferate the streets with drivers? If Uber is allowed to stay in London the black cabs will go out of business, Uber will have a monopoly and put prices up far higher than the black cabs currently are.popeyewhite said:
Burwood said:
Try getting a Black Cab in the West End after 1am. 'Where you going?Err Canary Wharf...awh sorry mate I'm just on my way home'. Bunch of tossers. They let Uber walk through the front door. Don't take machines
Didn't Uber just undercut the black cabs by about 40% and proliferate the streets with drivers? If Uber is allowed to stay in London the black cabs will go out of business, Uber will have a monopoly and put prices up far higher than the black cabs currently are.tty restaurants before social media.Burwood said:
Whoozit said:
miniman said:
All the benefits of Uber are available with black cabs via Gett, Hailo and other services. You get the advantages of a black cab (can go in bus lanes, has fundamental grasp of where you are heading, can easily circumnavigate traffic) and Uber (cashless, receipts, driver not likely to refuse to go saarf of the river). The few times I've used Uber I've ended up in a manky Prius stuck in a queue that, despite having 3 phones stuck to the windscreen, the driver has neither the ability nor the inclination to avoid.
I downloaded Gett this morning to check it out in case Uber is canned for good. I checked identical journeys I've take recently on Uber, at similar times of day, Gett was 40-50% more expensive. And in no way cheaper than hailing a black cab for that journey. I'm not a fan of black cabs anyway - uncomfortable, bouncy, slithery-seated, not airconditioned. They are stuck in the last century in more ways than one, servicing the drivers instead of the punters. If you feel uncomfortable, get in, give a destination, then check your phone, then say "sorry, my wife/husband needs me to go somewhere else."
In the old days, before electric door locks (terrible things), you just got in the cab (never give them the choice to refuse). That needs fixing to stop cabbies deciding to play the game - if they're going home, their light should be off.
I think the rules are: Drivers must, unless they have good cause, accept any hiring up to 12 miles (20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport), or up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London.
Whoozit said:
I downloaded Gett this morning to check it out in case Uber is canned for good. I checked identical journeys I've take recently on Uber, at similar times of day, Gett was 40-50% more expensive. And in no way cheaper than hailing a black cab for that journey. I'm not a fan of black cabs anyway - uncomfortable, bouncy, slithery-seated, not airconditioned. They are stuck in the last century in more ways than one, servicing the drivers instead of the punters.
Hmm, if you use Gett (which bought Hailo, an app I used to use all the time) to book a black cab then of course the fare will be the black cab fare...If you don't like / can't use Uber, try Lyft, Minicabster (if it is still going), Addison Lee, etc., etc. Lots of alternatives - including your friendly neighbourhood minicab company.
skwdenyer said:
That's easy enough to fix. Tell the cabbie you're going around the corner. S/he lets you in. Then tell them you're going somewhere else. The rules - set out in law - say that, once you're in the cab, the cabbie has to take you to anywhere in the area of operation.
So get in a cab (assuming it stops for you), make up a fictitious local address, then lie a bit more and pay a 50% premium for the privilege. Golly, that's got Uber beaten for sure.
NDA said:
skwdenyer said:
That's easy enough to fix. Tell the cabbie you're going around the corner. S/he lets you in. Then tell them you're going somewhere else. The rules - set out in law - say that, once you're in the cab, the cabbie has to take you to anywhere in the area of operation.
So get in a cab (assuming it stops for you), make up a fictitious local address, then lie a bit more and pay a 50% premium for the privilege. Golly, that's got Uber beaten for sure.
I'm not defending it, I'm simply saying that is how you get a black cab to do what you want. And I think a petition to TfL to sort that mess out would be a good thing.
TfL have *not* banned Uber-like companies. They have refused to grant Uber London a new licence (having previously only renewed it for 6 months and not 5 years with a clear "warning"). There are Uber competitors and, if the model is so attractive, they will take up any slack left if Uber fail on appeal.
It may be that the demand for Uber has come about purely by their anti-competitive dumping strategies (operating at a loss), and their tying drivers into car contracts (a trick learned from the utterly reprehensible contract cleaning industry).
Or it may be that the public want the option, in which case they'll use Lyft or whatever.
Uber is not the only company that can do what Uber does. Uber may be the only company rich enough to do quite what Uber do at such a loss - but that is hardly disruptive in any way other than being grossly anti-competitive.
skwdenyer said:
That's easy enough to fix. Tell the cabbie you're going around the corner. S/he lets you in. Then tell them you're going somewhere else. The rules - set out in law - say that, once you're in the cab, the cabbie has to take you to anywhere in the area of operation.
If you feel uncomfortable, get in, give a destination, then check your phone, then say "sorry, my wife/husband needs me to go somewhere else."
In the old days, before electric door locks (terrible things), you just got in the cab (never give them the choice to refuse). That needs fixing to stop cabbies deciding to play the game - if they're going home, their light should be off.
I think the rules are: Drivers must, unless they have good cause, accept any hiring up to 12 miles (20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport), or up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London.
A lot of people won't feel comfortable doing that, and it shouldn't be necessary. There certainly shouldn't need to be a law any longer to govern it.If you feel uncomfortable, get in, give a destination, then check your phone, then say "sorry, my wife/husband needs me to go somewhere else."
In the old days, before electric door locks (terrible things), you just got in the cab (never give them the choice to refuse). That needs fixing to stop cabbies deciding to play the game - if they're going home, their light should be off.
I think the rules are: Drivers must, unless they have good cause, accept any hiring up to 12 miles (20 miles if starting at Heathrow Airport), or up to one hour duration, if the destination is in Greater London.
One standard for fitness to drive should be all that's required. Then let the operators live and die on the quality/desirability of their service.
Only Uber make the money
The drivers are usually skint, poor English speaking skills, poor driving skills, of little worth to other employers other than the very lowest skilled jobs. The dregs of society.
It's certain that several hundred of them have criminal records, including those of a sexual nature, and violence.
You want your 17 year old daughter getting into a car alone with them at 3am in the East End ?
There are reams and reams of evidence regarding complaints about the behaviour of Uber drivers, of which a large percentage of them simply disappear.
If you get into a Black Cab, on a bus, on a train or tram, the operators drivers and staff are vetted, and this ensures up to a point, public safety and service credibility.
TfL has a responsibility to keep us safe.
It matters not a jot how many people sign a petition.
Facts are facts
I shall be waving goodbye to Uber, Uber drivers, and anything Uber with just two fingers of my right hand.
The drivers are usually skint, poor English speaking skills, poor driving skills, of little worth to other employers other than the very lowest skilled jobs. The dregs of society.
It's certain that several hundred of them have criminal records, including those of a sexual nature, and violence.
You want your 17 year old daughter getting into a car alone with them at 3am in the East End ?
There are reams and reams of evidence regarding complaints about the behaviour of Uber drivers, of which a large percentage of them simply disappear.
If you get into a Black Cab, on a bus, on a train or tram, the operators drivers and staff are vetted, and this ensures up to a point, public safety and service credibility.
TfL has a responsibility to keep us safe.
It matters not a jot how many people sign a petition.
Facts are facts
I shall be waving goodbye to Uber, Uber drivers, and anything Uber with just two fingers of my right hand.
skwdenyer said:
Hmm, if you use Gett (which bought Hailo, an app I used to use all the time) to book a black cab then of course the fare will be the black cab fare...
If you don't like / can't use Uber, try Lyft, Minicabster (if it is still going), Addison Lee, etc., etc. Lots of alternatives - including your friendly neighbourhood minicab company.
I downloaded the most recommended alternative to Uber on three different mainstream (print) newspaper articles. They weren't exactly clear it was black cab drivers. If you don't like / can't use Uber, try Lyft, Minicabster (if it is still going), Addison Lee, etc., etc. Lots of alternatives - including your friendly neighbourhood minicab company.
Lyft isn't operational in the UK, which makes me wonder where you are....And Addison Lee was universally slated with "rather expensive and for bankers on expenses". And local minicabs... are you serious? I want a service I can use anywhere across London, get a car within 5 minutes, and will take me from - for instance - Stratford to Richmond for less than £30 without moaning about how far it is to get back home.
stuttgartmetal said:
Only Uber make the money
The drivers are usually skint, poor English speaking skills, poor driving skills, of little worth to other employers other than the very lowest skilled jobs. The dregs of society.
[snip]
I shall be waving goodbye to Uber, Uber drivers, and anything Uber with just two fingers of my right hand.
OK, go ahead and put your daughters in the hands of an untraceable, anonymous black cab - or did you happen to note the reg or license number? Before you answer, read the following.https://medium.com/@paul_a_smith/black-cab-drivers-sexual-assault-and-why-you-should-always-read-the-data-7c71fc7c49b5The drivers are usually skint, poor English speaking skills, poor driving skills, of little worth to other employers other than the very lowest skilled jobs. The dregs of society.
[snip]
I shall be waving goodbye to Uber, Uber drivers, and anything Uber with just two fingers of my right hand.
Whoozit said:
OK, go ahead and put your daughters in the hands of an untraceable, anonymous black cab - or did you happen to note the reg or license number? Before you answer, read the following.https://medium.com/@paul_a_smith/black-cab-drivers-sexual-assault-and-why-you-should-always-read-the-data-7c71fc7c49b5
Gullible is no longer listed in dictionaries any more. Go ahead
Check.
stuttgartmetal said:
Gullible is no longer listed in dictionaries any more.
Go ahead
Check.
Stutty, darling. I could have mentioned Warbuoys but he was caught in 2009, and a single - if infamous - incident. Instead I found the most recent, readily available data for London. Which shows that cabbies of all stripes take advantage of their passengers. Go ahead, check the data. And then call me gullible. Go ahead
Check.
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