School protests - sex education

[amusingduck]

Mattrm77 said:

Been watching this issue quite closely especially after getting into a argument with someone on another forum about it and just saw on the campaign leaders social media some of the books that are used in the lessons and they’re worse than I thought I cannot believe anyone in the right mind would think that they books are appropriate for primary school children.

Do you have a link to the books' content?

[Andeh1]

Mattrm77 said:

Been watching this issue quite closely especially after getting into a argument with someone on another forum about it and just saw on the campaign leaders social media some of the books that are used in the lessons and they’re worse than I thought I cannot believe anyone in the right mind would think that they books are appropriate for primary school children.

Got any links or images of them? I am entirely unaware of what all the fuss is about - Context makes all the difference.


I would support my children being taught about homosexuality & transexuality during school, but I would draw the line at them being encouraged to question their gender, or that it is ok to be gender fluid or 1 of 200 pre-agreed-on-twitter forms of gender identity when they haven't yet mastered basic algebra.

[Dromedary66]

amusingduck said:

Do you have a link to the books' content?

Would be very interesting to see. Can you post?

[Octoposse]

amusingduck said:

Mattrm77 said:

Been watching this issue quite closely especially after getting into a argument with someone on another forum about it and just saw on the campaign leaders social media some of the books that are used in the lessons and they’re worse than I thought I cannot believe anyone in the right mind would think that they books are appropriate for primary school children.

Do you have a link to the books' content?

Willing to bet 50p that materials on the campaign leader's social media purporting to be from classroom texts are actually bogus and cynically intended to provoke.

[Dromedary66]

I found one of the ring leaders FB pages - https://www.facebook.com/ShakeelAfsar123

In there he mentions (no photos of a book having been brought home by a child) the following books

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Billy-BLUE-Dress-Jennifer...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Princess-Boy-Cheryl-Ki...


Personally I am not interested in hearing Muslims speak about children's rights when they carry out ritualistic genital mutilation on babies at a global scale.

[Rayan77]

Andeh1 said:

Got any links or images of them? I am entirely unaware of what all the fuss is about - Context makes all the difference.


I would support my children being taught about homosexuality & transexuality during school, but I would draw the line at them being encouraged to question their gender, or that it is ok to be gender fluid or 1 of 200 pre-agreed-on-twitter forms of gender identity when they haven't yet mastered basic algebra.

I know there was on on YouTube called “are you a boy or a girl” which was apparently encouraging children to question their gender

On his Instagram story He showed xerox copy’s of front pages of books like “Jacobs new dress” “Bills new frock” and “my princess boy a mums story about a young boy who loves to dress up”

Edited by Rayan77 on Friday 21st June 12:08

Edited by Rayan77 on Friday 21st June 12:18

[amusingduck]

Dromedary66 said:

I found one of the ring leaders FB pages - https://www.facebook.com/ShakeelAfsar123

In there he mentions (no photos of a book having been brought home by a child) the following books

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Billy-BLUE-Dress-Jennifer...

https://www.amazon.co.uk/My-Princess-Boy-Cheryl-Ki...


Personally I am not interested in hearing Muslims speak about children's rights when they carry out ritualistic genital mutilation on babies at a global scale.

The second book has some pictures on amazon -





Can't see anything to get worked up about here, except that the story seems unbelievably dull

[Davos123]

Telling boys it's ok to wear dresses or play princess has nothing to do with telling them to question their gender. It challenging gender roles.

[Countdown]

Tiggsy said:

I've always had the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that if you asked random people "what religion do you identify as" and took the 1st 100 to say Christian and the first 100 to Muslim (in the UK)......that more of the "Christians" would not actually believe in much of what that religion suggests you should. As such the "insert random nasty Christian" was a Christian doesn't mean much.

My guess is that's true simply because those people who identify as Christian in the UK have been exposed to liberal values for a much longer period of time (and effectively "the State and Social Welfare" have eliminated the need to believe in a God). With every successive generation the religious and cultural differences become less and less.

If you were to ask the question of 100 Christians from the US deep south I'd be very surprised if the level of belief varied.

[Countdown]

amusingduck said:

Can't see anything to get worked up about here, except that the story seems unbelievably dull

Agreed.

[Labradorofperception]

amusingduck said:

The second book has some pictures on amazon -





Can't see anything to get worked up about here, except that the story seems unbelievably dull

I am offended by the use of the word "soccer".


American cultural imperialism

or summat.

[Octoposse]

Countdown said:

amusingduck said:

Can't see anything to get worked up about here, except that the story seems unbelievably dull

Agreed.

Yep. "Billy and the Blue Dress" looks better. I'd have been entirely happy for my boy to have read either a couple of years ago.

[rscott]

Countdown said:

Tiggsy said:

I've always had the impression (correct me if I'm wrong) that if you asked random people "what religion do you identify as" and took the 1st 100 to say Christian and the first 100 to Muslim (in the UK)......that more of the "Christians" would not actually believe in much of what that religion suggests you should. As such the "insert random nasty Christian" was a Christian doesn't mean much.

My guess is that's true simply because those people who identify as Christian in the UK have been exposed to liberal values for a much longer period of time (and effectively "the State and Social Welfare" have eliminated the need to believe in a God). With every successive generation the religious and cultural differences become less and less.

If you were to ask the question of 100 Christians from the US deep south I'd be very surprised if the level of belief varied.

Indeed.

This is not exactly surprising.... https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/jun/20/peti...

[gregs656]

Mattrm77 said:

Been watching this issue quite closely especially after getting into a argument with someone on another forum about it and just saw on the campaign leaders social media some of the books that are used in the lessons and they’re worse than I thought I cannot believe anyone in the right mind would think that they books are appropriate for primary school children..

Edited by Rayan77 on Friday 21st June 12:00

Resources for the No Outsiders program are not difficult to find.

Usually it is wise to look at the material being discussed prior to getting into an argument about it with someone. And not to rely on Facebook memes without some cross checking.

[Andeh1]

Octoposse said:

Countdown said:

amusingduck said:

Can't see anything to get worked up about here, except that the story seems unbelievably dull

Agreed.

Yep. "Billy and the Blue Dress" looks better. I'd have been entirely happy for my boy to have read either a couple of years ago.

My children reading them is none issue to me, casually introducing them into a school library is ok with me, respecting people into it - absolutely.....BUT dedicating class time to educating primary school boys to consider wearing a dress, be a princess & to question their gender is a bit of a non starter for me. This gender-attention is a new fad that will eventually peter out when people realise that you can't make a long term career & success story future keeping it up outside of the worlds of Uni, College, Twitter & equivalent echo chambers.

In my day it was football hooligans, mods & rockers, hippies, then into the goths, chavs, townies, skaters, greebos, smokers, being ''random'' and ''out there''...everyone grew up, went to uni/work & fell into the traditional middle grounds of society...this generation it is being gender aware & finding a subset of it to feel part of - that need for human bonding/togetherness.

Maybe I am too traditional, but of all the sins of society children should be educated on (above & beyond the basic curriculum) the above is quite frankly not the issue. Climate change, Resource Depletion, Social Media, Fake news, Nasty Politics, Rise of extremist views, modern age of AI, Cyber Crimes, Internet Safety, Financial sense etc etc etc - this is what we need to be focusing our attention on.

[Halb]

amusingduck said:

The second book has some pictures on amazon -





Can't see anything to get worked up about here, except that the story seems unbelievably dull

yeah, won't be winning a booker prize anytime soon

[Tiggsy]

Countdown said:

If you were to ask the question of 100 Christians from the US deep south I'd be very surprised if the level of belief varied.

Agree - If there where a billion of them and they had interesting views on how best to spread the word.....it would probably be a bigger concern.

[Halb]

Mattrm77 said:

Been watching this issue quite closely especially after getting into a argument with someone on another forum about it and just saw on the campaign leaders social media some of the books that are used in the lessons and they’re worse than I thought I cannot believe anyone in the right mind would think that they books are appropriate for primary school children..

Edited by Rayan77 on Friday 21st June 12:00

Should be quite easy for you to back this up then.
I notice that a mod has had to edit your post.

[Andeh1]

The first I ever really noticed about this whole aspect of society was when a VERY openly 'Gender Fluid' chap in the office started a campaign to get a 'Gender Neutral' toilet set up in the office. No one paid much attention to it, but just got on with their business. A few months later one of the female toilets was announced with much fanfare that it was now gender neutral.... I still didn't pay it a huge amount of attention - it didn't effect me.

However - we had a team meeting, and a few of the women in the room brought it up, and put forwards a really eye opening counter argument to it. Their toilets are already 'busy' because women traditionally spend longer & have less usable facilities (no urinals....), and now they had effectively lost 20% of their toilets because one gender fluid chap & his campaign had opened up their toilet to men. They explained very respectively that this one chap' rights, beliefs & political correctness had penalised them and why should his views matter more then theirs. There was only ONE of him/gender fluid, vs several dozen women who now all had lost out to him.

No one really spoke up or did anything other then mutter general acceptance - but the situation REALLY stuck with me. I couldn't shake the feeling of how upset I would be had I lost out on a much needed facility to because one chap felt he deserved special attention.

[Davos123]

Andeh1 said:

The first I ever really noticed about this whole aspect of society was when a VERY openly 'Gender Fluid' chap in the office started a campaign to get a 'Gender Neutral' toilet set up in the office. No one paid much attention to it, but just got on with their business. A few months later one of the female toilets was announced with much fanfare that it was now gender neutral.... I still didn't pay it a huge amount of attention - it didn't effect me.

However - we had a team meeting, and a few of the women in the room brought it up, and put forwards a really eye opening counter argument to it. Their toilets are already 'busy' because women traditionally spend longer & have less usable facilities (no urinals....), and now they had effectively lost 20% of their toilets because one gender fluid chap & his campaign had opened up their toilet to men. They explained very respectively that this one chap' rights, beliefs & political correctness had penalised them and why should his views matter more then theirs. There was only ONE of him/gender fluid, vs several dozen women who now all had lost out to him.

No one really spoke up or did anything other then mutter general acceptance - but the situation REALLY stuck with me. I couldn't shake the feeling of how upset I would be had I lost out on a much needed facility to because one chap felt he deserved special attention.

They could have solved this problem by making all toilets gender neutral. My office doesn't have urinals in the men's - always find it a bit silly we bother to have male and female toilets when it's just a room of closed cubicles.