CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)
Discussion
plasticpig said:
isaldiri said:
Which as i pointed to Eddiesteadygo on the vaccine thread, large % of people getting rounded up to be jabbed is not at the moment ever going to prove a panacea as long as the politicians keep on obsessing about cases because at some point, like Israel they will run out of adults to get jabbed. What then if cases start rising again as they inevitably will....?
There's the option of jabbing up kids next which they might attempt to further reduce cases - for the time being. But again as I keep on saying, jabbing people to keep infections down isn't a long term solution to keep cases low forever. Well unless one thinks eternally getting booster for everyone is a viable future.
I have a totally different stance on this. The government need to do as much testing as possible and find as many cases as possible. That way can say “ooooh look how many cases there are; but so few people in hospital and hardly anyone is dying. Aren’t we clever politicians for sorting the vaccine rollout”; give the public a pat on the head for getting jabbed and send us on our way with no lockdown restrictions. There's the option of jabbing up kids next which they might attempt to further reduce cases - for the time being. But again as I keep on saying, jabbing people to keep infections down isn't a long term solution to keep cases low forever. Well unless one thinks eternally getting booster for everyone is a viable future.
poo at Paul's said:
RacerMike said:
It is true abroad. As of next week no masks outside required in Spain, and pubs/bars as of last Sat could open until their licensed time. When I was there with work 2 weeks ago, there were basically zero restrictions to normal life now apart from masks. Also, Germans can also travel for holidays anywhere within Europe, as can most other Europeans.
So it is true abraod, eh......well from next week............in a different country to the one cited in the post............and also true in another country different to the on cited...........apart from masks.........Yup, nailed it!
There are plenty of restrictions in Italy, it is far more restrictive than the UK with regards to masks.
Here is an example of the rules for Italy; There's plenty of rules on who can and cant enter, quaratine, testing etc. But assuming you are there and clear of that, the main ones relate to what you can and cannot do and masks, distancing etc.
Updated in accordance with Decree-Law no. 143 dated 17 June 2021 and the Ministry of Health Order dated 18 June 2021. Measures valid until 30 July 2021.
FACE MASK AND DISTANCING
Throughout Italy, it is mandatory to wear a mask in public places indoors. The mask is also mandatory outdoors, except in cases where you are isolated from people who do not live togethet. In Lazio it is mandatory to wear a mask outdoors in any situation.
Those who are not required to wear masks:
- people who are carrying out sports activities
- children under the age of 6
- people with disabilities or conditions incompatible with the use of a mask; carers or care workers are not obliged to wear masks, in the event that the mask makes it impossible to interact between carers/care workers and persons with disabilities. The use of the mask is also recommended inside houses, in the presence of non-cohabiting people.
It is mandatory to maintain the safe distance of at least one metre from non-cohabiting people.
Some squares or streets may be closed to the public throughout the day or at certain time slots to avoid gatherings. Access to these squares or streets is allowed only to reach open shops and private houses.
It is recommended to limit travel, by public or private transport, for reasons of work, study, health, for reasons of necessity or to take advantage of services not suspended.
It is also recommended to download the Immuni app, created by the Ministry of Health and the Minister of Technological Innovation to limit the spread of Covid-19.
There is also lots about the use of the EU Digital Covid Certificate, as well as Covid Tested Flights etc.
As the other poster said, it is utter horses
t that there are no restrictions in Italy. Masks indoors AND outdoors, down to age 7 inclusive... I’m sorry it doesn’t agree with the point some people were trying to make, but it’s just the reality of the situation. Sorry.
isaldiri said:
Well, the issue is that so far it's 'oooh look how many potential new variants there are, Areb;t we politicians clever for finding these variants to save you the people from them'. So until the politicians actually start saying lots of cases don't matter (as your post suggest is their intent) rather than lots of cases mean we need more restrictions to keep cases down as what has actually happened... I don't exactly know why you think the current government messaging about vax up to lower infections is such a great idea.
I think there has been a subtle shift in the governments narrative. There seems to be more concentration of breaking the chain between infections and hospitalisations rather than outright cases. In today’s press conference they seemed quite blasé about an increase by 6k in cases and concentrated more on vaccination numbers and the very slow growth in hospital admissions compared to infections.plasticpig said:
isaldiri said:
Well, the issue is that so far it's 'oooh look how many potential new variants there are, Areb;t we politicians clever for finding these variants to save you the people from them'. So until the politicians actually start saying lots of cases don't matter (as your post suggest is their intent) rather than lots of cases mean we need more restrictions to keep cases down as what has actually happened... I don't exactly know why you think the current government messaging about vax up to lower infections is such a great idea.
I think there has been a subtle shift in the governments narrative. There seems to be more concentration of breaking the chain between infections and hospitalisations rather than outright cases. In today’s press conference they seemed quite blasé about an increase by 6k in cases and concentrated more on vaccination numbers and the very slow growth in hospital admissions compared to infections.t telling people more cases was a direct cause of continuing restrictions and how terrifying the bloody new variant is, suddenly being blase about a big increase today isn't quite going to be able to unroll the incessant fearmongering they have engaged in since well.. forever. Scolmore said:
Biker 1 said:
Where on earth does he get the time from??
As I was saying to my granddaughter (did I mention she lives in America?) I often find with people that if only they got up earlier, worked harder and ran and rowed more, they'd have much more time. It's all of their own making, for example, problems with a Covid test, of course down to someone choosing to use the wrong courier. I always find that I never have any problems 
He has plenty of advice to share with everyone, because he's correct and everyone needs to hear it.
The Don of Croy said:
Carl_Manchester said:
bodhi said:
In fact, other than the vaccines, it seems the best prophylactic we have against CV-19, even after all this time, is a packet of Marlboro.
We need a scientific study pitting a pack of Marlboro, Camels, Park Lane and Mayfairs together in order to protect against the worst of Covid 
Woodbines for the win. More recent stuff - full strength Prince used to be reasonably throaty (for the times) and seem to recall a Spanish brand that I can't recall. However, we probably need some cheap imports for full effect.
DukeDickson said:
.
Woodbines for the win. More recent stuff - full strength Prince used to be reasonably throaty (for the times) and seem to recall a Spanish brand that I can't recall. However, we probably need some cheap imports for full effect.
I used to smoke Camel non filter and they are pretty strong. Used to work with some Israelis and the stuff they smoked blew the Camels away in terms of throatiness.Woodbines for the win. More recent stuff - full strength Prince used to be reasonably throaty (for the times) and seem to recall a Spanish brand that I can't recall. However, we probably need some cheap imports for full effect.
TameRacingDriver said:
A video I was sent by a friend which showed someone confronting outdoor mask wearers, and asking what benefit they thought it was having. Many couldn't answer but equally many said they liked wearing a mask and would continue to do so indefinitely. This was backed up by another thread on Reddit where many people admitted they enjoyed people having to wear masks because it helped their anxiety and it protected them from gems.
Oh dear, I thought diamonds are a girl's best friend.Otoh, maybe it's all a house of cards.
If you've got them by the balls, their hearts and minds will follow.
If you don't conform to the rules, all your clubs will blackball you.
If you really want to plant that tree you'll need a bigger spade.
NewBod said:
Another anecdotal high five to the NHS.
My wife injured her eye a few weeks ago. Went to the local urgent treatment centre the next morning. They looked at it straight away (can't fault them for that) and said you need to leave it a few days and see how it goes. If it's still not cleared up, contact your GP.
Two weeks later, her eye is still blurry so she called the GP earlier. They won't see her until she can have a phone appointment. Next phone appointment is next week. Eh? She needs a physical examination.
My wife told the surgery everything that has happened and said she needs to be seen for someone to look at it. Nope said the GP surgery. Phone appointment only.
I can see us taking her to A&E or the UTC again. What an absolute waste of urgent treatment resources. What shocking behaviour by the GP.
That reminds me, I must file my complaint about the GP with the health ombudsman. This episode has given me more reason to do it now.
I reckon in many (most?) practices the manager and receptionists are running the show now, not the medics.My wife injured her eye a few weeks ago. Went to the local urgent treatment centre the next morning. They looked at it straight away (can't fault them for that) and said you need to leave it a few days and see how it goes. If it's still not cleared up, contact your GP.
Two weeks later, her eye is still blurry so she called the GP earlier. They won't see her until she can have a phone appointment. Next phone appointment is next week. Eh? She needs a physical examination.
My wife told the surgery everything that has happened and said she needs to be seen for someone to look at it. Nope said the GP surgery. Phone appointment only.
I can see us taking her to A&E or the UTC again. What an absolute waste of urgent treatment resources. What shocking behaviour by the GP.
That reminds me, I must file my complaint about the GP with the health ombudsman. This episode has given me more reason to do it now.
It feels as if it's part of a plan to overwhelm hospital A&E departments.
Which will then be used as additional justification for re-imposing restrictions to save the NHS.
Elysium said:
basherX said:
ooh, a new variant. Delta plus. Think I might go out and panic buy some beans.
I am waiting for Delta squared. basherX said:
Nickgnome said:
We were discussing masks worn over the mouth.
It did not take long for you to descend into profanity.
No we weren’t. I was discussing face masks imposed on the population because of the pandemic. The U.K. I’m June 2021 is neither Tokyo nor Val D’Isère in the ski season. The reason you get such hostile responses here is because you try to have a smart arse response for everything. It’s tedious. If you can’t acknowledge the personal effect this is having on people, even if you think that’s a price worth paying, you’re always going to be disregarded. It did not take long for you to descend into profanity.
monkeychild said:
Ivor Cummings showing how "scary" the Delta variant isn't https://thefatemperor.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/...
Great video, thank you One could surmise from that graph that the Delta variant is either aa lot less serious, or that it spreads so poorly that all the other ones have tailed off naturally and Delta has failed to take their place but has been the only one around when sequencing is done on positive tests??
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
NewBod said:
Do we have the G7 variant in circulation yet?
Did we label everything like this with flu?
Flu is at least 10 times less troublesome than even the alpha ( Kent ) Covid strain. There’s no need to get the collective knickers in a twist about flu.Did we label everything like this with flu?
Biker 1 said:
APontus said:
Then you rejab them into eternity.
Doubtless with tweaks for new mutations, rendering the original vax obsolete.....How many chemicals can the average human absorb?
Surely antibody production places the body under some stress, which is why it fades naturally and is replaced by T-cell (and B-cell??) immunity that kicks in if needed?
rover 623gsi said:
ok, swear to God this is true...
guy I know has a nasty fall on Sunday morning
his brother takes him to local A&E
yep - both badly ankles, possibly broken, not sure, put in a bed for observation, give him loads of painkillers
...
fast forward a few hours and they make him take a covid test - this apparently turns out to be positive but they won't show him any proof so he gets into a bit of an argument with doctors and nurses and they won't operate or do any close investigation till he tests again
Monday they do two more tests - both come back negative
BUT - they now refuse to operate until he's done another test
He refuses - I know the bloke and he can be very stubborn!
Just had a message from his brother earlier - they still won't operate, have put him in a room on his own, will only communicate with him from a distance and have told he can't have any visitors for 10 days from his date of admission unless he takes another covid test.
WTAF???
So he's had 1 test which is positive, but 2 tests which are negative guy I know has a nasty fall on Sunday morning
his brother takes him to local A&E
yep - both badly ankles, possibly broken, not sure, put in a bed for observation, give him loads of painkillers
...
fast forward a few hours and they make him take a covid test - this apparently turns out to be positive but they won't show him any proof so he gets into a bit of an argument with doctors and nurses and they won't operate or do any close investigation till he tests again
Monday they do two more tests - both come back negative
BUT - they now refuse to operate until he's done another test
He refuses - I know the bloke and he can be very stubborn!
Just had a message from his brother earlier - they still won't operate, have put him in a room on his own, will only communicate with him from a distance and have told he can't have any visitors for 10 days from his date of admission unless he takes another covid test.
WTAF???
So which test answer do they listen to?
If the 4th one is positive will he then need a 5th one? If the 5th one is negative, then does he need a 6th? How many negative tests in a row do you need?
Surely this is just proving the tests are
1) Not fit for purpose
2) Being ignored or mis-trusted anyway
3) In any event it's Covid not the Plague!
Put a complaint into the PALS service, most hospitals have those.
Hope your friend gets the operation he needs soon - I believe the NHS has really shown itself negatively over the last 6-12 months.
Sounds like they said after the first test, he needed to test again unless they won't operate, he took 2 more tests as requested and they still don't believe them? (can they even do that? Does NHS allow for refusal of treatment on the basis of refusing a test?)
Edited by CarCrazyDad on Thursday 24th June 01:34
Biker 1 said:
The Don of Croy said:
My money would be on Capstan Full Strength unfiltered. That’ll kill most things.
My money is on Golden Virginia. I use Swan super slim filters to mitigate bat-flu.Incidentally, there was some study in France I think (??) about a year ago, which indicated very low infection rates/serious health complications amongst us smokers. It all went a bit quiet. Are there any stats out there? Of course I appreciate my chances of death by emphasema/cancer are undoubtedly way higher than death by bat-flu.
plasticpig said:
isaldiri said:
Which as i pointed to Eddiesteadygo on the vaccine thread, large % of people getting rounded up to be jabbed is not at the moment ever going to prove a panacea as long as the politicians keep on obsessing about cases because at some point, like Israel they will run out of adults to get jabbed. What then if cases start rising again as they inevitably will....?
There's the option of jabbing up kids next which they might attempt to further reduce cases - for the time being. But again as I keep on saying, jabbing people to keep infections down isn't a long term solution to keep cases low forever. Well unless one thinks eternally getting booster for everyone is a viable future.
I have a totally different stance on this. The government need to do as much testing as possible and find as many cases as possible. That way can say “ooooh look how many cases there are; but so few people in hospital and hardly anyone is dying. Aren’t we clever politicians for sorting the vaccine rollout”; give the public a pat on the head for getting jabbed and send us on our way with no lockdown restrictions. There's the option of jabbing up kids next which they might attempt to further reduce cases - for the time being. But again as I keep on saying, jabbing people to keep infections down isn't a long term solution to keep cases low forever. Well unless one thinks eternally getting booster for everyone is a viable future.
What would the 'case fatality rate' be if we actually only counted cases as symptomatic and presenting to a healthcare professional?
You know, like the good old days?
Surely the 'case' fatality rate is near to flu now, but wouldn't it be a lot higher if we weren't testing everything with a pulse and a runny nose?
Which would, ironically, help the Govt with their 'scariant' approach and general fearmongering?
CarCrazyDad said:
rover 623gsi said:
ok, swear to God this is true...
guy I know has a nasty fall on Sunday morning
his brother takes him to local A&E
yep - both badly ankles, possibly broken, not sure, put in a bed for observation, give him loads of painkillers
...
fast forward a few hours and they make him take a covid test - this apparently turns out to be positive but they won't show him any proof so he gets into a bit of an argument with doctors and nurses and they won't operate or do any close investigation till he tests again
Monday they do two more tests - both come back negative
BUT - they now refuse to operate until he's done another test
He refuses - I know the bloke and he can be very stubborn!
Just had a message from his brother earlier - they still won't operate, have put him in a room on his own, will only communicate with him from a distance and have told he can't have any visitors for 10 days from his date of admission unless he takes another covid test.
WTAF???
So he's had 1 test which is positive, but 2 tests which are negative guy I know has a nasty fall on Sunday morning
his brother takes him to local A&E
yep - both badly ankles, possibly broken, not sure, put in a bed for observation, give him loads of painkillers
...
fast forward a few hours and they make him take a covid test - this apparently turns out to be positive but they won't show him any proof so he gets into a bit of an argument with doctors and nurses and they won't operate or do any close investigation till he tests again
Monday they do two more tests - both come back negative
BUT - they now refuse to operate until he's done another test
He refuses - I know the bloke and he can be very stubborn!
Just had a message from his brother earlier - they still won't operate, have put him in a room on his own, will only communicate with him from a distance and have told he can't have any visitors for 10 days from his date of admission unless he takes another covid test.
WTAF???
So which test answer do they listen to?
If the 4th one is positive will he then need a 5th one? If the 5th one is negative, then does he need a 6th? How many negative tests in a row do you need?
Surely this is just proving the tests are
1) Not fit for purpose
2) Being ignored or mis-trusted anyway
3) In any event it's Covid not the Plague!
Put a complaint into the PALS service, most hospitals have those.
Hope your friend gets the operation he needs soon - I believe the NHS has really shown itself negatively over the last 6-12 months.
Sounds like they said after the first test, he needed to test again unless they won't operate, he took 2 more tests as requested and they still don't believe them? (can they even do that? Does NHS allow for refusal of treatment on the basis of refusing a test?)
Edited by CarCrazyDad on Thursday 24th June 01:34
Nightmare situation.
Is it just me or was there a great deal of 'tin foil!!' and 'fake bullst!!' accusations at those posting videos of magnetic jab sites hosted on 'conspiracy' sites?
And yet now the vax companies are openly admitting that the mRNA jabs have magnetic particles in them? (which are travelling all over the body to places they shouldn't be - which is still not really being covered by the 'MSM'?)
One more tick in the box for the conspiracy theorists.
t!!' accusations at those posting videos of magnetic jab sites hosted on 'conspiracy' sites?And yet now the vax companies are openly admitting that the mRNA jabs have magnetic particles in them? (which are travelling all over the body to places they shouldn't be - which is still not really being covered by the 'MSM'?)
One more tick in the box for the conspiracy theorists.
RSTurboPaul said:
IIRC there was a couple of chaps (maybe a family?) stuck in Italy for over 50 days because a positive test meant no flight, but all the subsequent tests were either positive (but, I imagine, high Ct rate on PCR and therefore not infectious in real life) or negative (but not believed as adequate proof therefore no escape still).
Nightmare situation.
3 unrelated friends - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-stu...Nightmare situation.
Red Devil said:
RSTurboPaul said:
IIRC there was a couple of chaps (maybe a family?) stuck in Italy for over 50 days because a positive test meant no flight, but all the subsequent tests were either positive (but, I imagine, high Ct rate on PCR and therefore not infectious in real life) or negative (but not believed as adequate proof therefore no escape still).
Nightmare situation.
3 unrelated friends - https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-news/man-stu...Nightmare situation.
Sounds... hellish.
newspaper said:
Rhys James, a 23-year-old from Pembroke Dock, and two friends were teaching English in Florence before they tested positive for coronavirus on August 17.
The Italian law at the time meant that they each would need to provide two consecutive negative coronavirus test results to be able to leave.
Finally on Monday, October 12, Will tested negative and was allowed to return to the UK. However, Quinn and Rhys returned a positive test and were told they would have to stay, despite having no symptoms since August.
However, On Friday, October 16 the Italian government changed the law, so that after 21 days of isolation and one negative test, people stuck there could leave the country.
The two boys travelled back that weekend after testing negative for coronavirus 61 days after they were put in isolation.
61 days of solitary confinement?The Italian law at the time meant that they each would need to provide two consecutive negative coronavirus test results to be able to leave.
Finally on Monday, October 12, Will tested negative and was allowed to return to the UK. However, Quinn and Rhys returned a positive test and were told they would have to stay, despite having no symptoms since August.
However, On Friday, October 16 the Italian government changed the law, so that after 21 days of isolation and one negative test, people stuck there could leave the country.
The two boys travelled back that weekend after testing negative for coronavirus 61 days after they were put in isolation.
I'm not sure how that isn't against at least some Human Rights laws for non-criminal normal people who aren't in actual prison.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Thursday 24th June 02:14
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