Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 8
Discussion
Shambler said:
What may have gone unnoticed in the whole Brexit/ Indy 2 argument is why many Scots voted to remain. I know of several people who voted remain purely on the belief that it would prevent the SNP pushing for another indy referendum. On another note I saw the odious Ian Blackford in the supermarket yesterday acting like he was some sort of demigod.
Tactical voting in a referendum, how has that worked out for them? 
Edited by Strocky on Wednesday 13th March 11:12
Evercross said:
ETA - it is quite amusing to consider if there were to be negotiations between Scotland and rUK over a future relationship how the SNP have already committed to giving up one of their biggest bargaining chips ie. the location of the island's nuclear defence. Considering how the Brexit result took most people by surprise it is ironic how the SNP criticise Theresa May and the Tories for being 'unprepared' and having 'no plan' yet the SNP have been campaigning for Scottish independence since dot and similarly have 'no plan'. What is their excuse?
A classic example of the Ronald McDonald school of hypocritical debating fallaciesEdited by Evercross on Monday 11th March 11:49
No Plan / White Paper is fantasy
You can't use the pound / An iS would be nuts to have it's own currency better off keeping the £
Only way to remain in EU is to vote NO / Brexit was a UK vote & Scotland voted NO so suck it up
Re Trident, will take 10 years for the UK to sort out another base, so get your hands in your pockets, gents, it's rent day every day
Edited by Strocky on Wednesday 13th March 11:13
Strocky said:
A classic example of the Ronald McDonald school of hypocritical debating fallacies
No Plan / White Paper is fantasy.
Alex Bell, one of the authors of the White Paper, has since discredited it a 'plan'.No Plan / White Paper is fantasy.
Strocky said:
You can't use the pound.
I recall Salmond's tactic on the TV debate and in the run-up to indyref - claim the rUK were being nasty for not letting an independent Scotland use the pound (oh, nasty them, vote for us because of it - a cyclical argument) and then getting Alistair Darling to say that an independent Scotland could use the pound if it wanted to and then cutting him off before he had a chance to explain that (a) that wasn't what the SNP were offering (they stated there would be a Sterling Currency Union - something it was never in their power to offer) and (b) the consequences of using another nation's currency unilaterally means losing control over all monetary policy.Strocky said:
An iS would be nuts to have it's own currency better off.
Largest criticism of SNP's proposed currency plans are coming from within the independence movement itself (see above).Strocky said:
Only way to remain in EU is to vote NO / Brexit was a UK vote & Scotland voted NO so suck it up.
Both statements were correct at the time they were made.Strocky said:
Re Trident, will take 10 years for the UK to sort out another base, so get your hands in your pockets, gents, it's rent day every day
Will be blocked following the accusations of accepting English blood money from the party faithful/support split etc. etc.So, now that we've raked that old ground again with no changes to the realities (being bitter about old arguments is so typical of chippy nats), how about engaging with the topics of the day (in particular the SNP colluding to overturn a referendum result).
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 13th March 09:56
Edinburger said:
Rather than looking back, let's look forward... If the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if the SNP manage to call a referendum on Scottish independence,
Firstly, can we get the language straight - SNP cannot 'call' another referendum. Like it or not it is illegal for them to do so (and as I keep saying, if nothing else, Brexit has taught us all that when it comes to the crunch technocracy trumps emotive b
ks every time).Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
Rather than looking back, let's look forward... If the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if the SNP manage to call a referendum on Scottish independence,
Firstly, can we get the language straight - SNP cannot 'call' another referendum. Like it or not it is illegal for them to do so (and as I keep saying, if nothing else, Brexit has taught us all that when it comes to the crunch technocracy trumps emotive bks every time).
Let me put it another way: if the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if another referendum on Scottish independence takes place, how would you vote?
To stay with the UK, obviously.
Reasons? I'm not in the slightest worried about no deal. I don't have any more confidence in Sturgeon/SNP to get a better outcome for iS than May has with the EU. I believe we have more in common with the UK than the EU (that should be fking obvious to anyone). I think the EU has demonstrated why we shouldn't want an iS as part of it.
There are many, many reasons.
Reasons? I'm not in the slightest worried about no deal. I don't have any more confidence in Sturgeon/SNP to get a better outcome for iS than May has with the EU. I believe we have more in common with the UK than the EU (that should be f
king obvious to anyone). I think the EU has demonstrated why we shouldn't want an iS as part of it.There are many, many reasons.
Edited by technodup on Wednesday 13th March 10:17
Edinburger said:
Rather than looking back, let's look forward...
If the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if the SNP manage to call a referendum on Scottish independence, how many people who voted No in 2014 would now seriously consider voting Yes? And if not, why not?
I voted no last time.If the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if the SNP manage to call a referendum on Scottish independence, how many people who voted No in 2014 would now seriously consider voting Yes? And if not, why not?
If, if, there is a vote. I shall again vote no.
The Scottish government have not shown they can effectively run a country.
The arguments haven’t been answered, the same old waffle is being spouted as fact.
If they wish to convince people to vote for them, they could try and run the country properly.
Demonstrate they can actually do it.
But then they still have to get over the hypocrisy of claiming possible disruption to EU trade, is bad. But possible disruption to U.K. is fine.
Despite their own figures showing the U.K. trade being worth considerably more.
A.J.M said:
Edinburger said:
Rather than looking back, let's look forward...
If the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if the SNP manage to call a referendum on Scottish independence, how many people who voted No in 2014 would now seriously consider voting Yes? And if not, why not?
I voted no last time.If the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if the SNP manage to call a referendum on Scottish independence, how many people who voted No in 2014 would now seriously consider voting Yes? And if not, why not?
If, if, there is a vote. I shall again vote no.
The Scottish government have not shown they can effectively run a country.
The arguments haven’t been answered, the same old waffle is being spouted as fact.
If they wish to convince people to vote for them, they could try and run the country properly.
Demonstrate they can actually do it.
But then they still have to get over the hypocrisy of claiming possible disruption to EU trade, is bad. But possible disruption to U.K. is fine.
Despite their own figures showing the U.K. trade being worth considerably more.
We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Edinburger said:
Let me put it another way: if the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if another referendum on Scottish independence takes place, how would you vote?
Before even considering answering it, I would like you to explain by what chain of events do you think that is likely to happen, bearing in mind that a Conservative government has nothing to lose in ignoring requests for a s.30 order for the foreseeable future (in fact, resistance to another independence referendum has seen Conservative voting in Scotland at its highest for several decades), a Labour government would give no concession to the SNP because they split the socialist vote in Scotland, plus latest Evening Times opinion poll puts support for holding another Scottish independence referendum in the next 5 years at circa. 30%.The only people linking the two events (Brexit and Scottish independence) are the nationalists, and you would think by now that Nicola would had learned the lesson of doing so.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 13th March 10:32
Edinburger said:
You're not voting for an independent Scotland with the SNP at the helm. The question is: would you now like to see Scotland as an independent country?
We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Given the failures of the government, politicians, BoE, CBI, and most 'leading' economists to predict the (pre)Brexit fallout I'm not going to start trusting SNP predictions of the future thanks very much.We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Evercross said:
Before even considering answering it, I would like you to explain by what chain of events do you think that is likely to happen, bearing in mind that the UK government has nothing to lose in ignoring requests for a s.30 order for the foreseeable future, plus latest Evening Times opinion poll puts support for holding another Scottish independence referendum in the next 5 years at circa. 30%.
The funny thing is Strocky was claiming May's refusal to grant one made her look weak. Maybe to him and his indy muppets, but he's forgetting they only make up about 5% of the UK. To the rest of the UK it makes her look tough (if they even notice that is). Admittedly it's about the only thing she's being tough on, but still.
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
Let me put it another way: if the UK leaves the EU with no deal and if another referendum on Scottish independence takes place, how would you vote?
Before even considering answering it, I would like you to explain by what chain of events do you think that is likely to happen, bearing in mind that a Conservative government has nothing to lose in ignoring requests for a s.30 order for the foreseeable future (in fact, resistance to another independence referendum has seen Conservative voting in Scotland at its highest for several decades), a Labour government would give no concession to the SNP because they split the socialist vote in Scotland, plus latest Evening Times opinion poll puts support for holding another Scottish independence referendum in the next 5 years at circa. 30%.The only people linking the two events (Brexit and Scottish independence) are the nationalists, and you would think by now that Nicola had learned the lesson of doing so.
Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 13th March 10:30
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
You're not voting for an independent Scotland with the SNP at the helm. The question is: would you now like to see Scotland as an independent country?
We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Given the failures of the government, politicians, BoE, CBI, and most 'leading' economists to predict the (pre)Brexit fallout I'm not going to start trusting SNP predictions of the future thanks very much.We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Edinburger said:
It's a hypothetical question. I'm absolutely not saying it's the right thing to do, but I do think enthusiasm for another referendum is likely given the way Brexit is going.
Are you serious? The 70% figure of rejecting another Scottish referendum is being interpreted as Brexit fallout.Edinburger said:
I know a number of people who are now keener than ever to see an open discussion about an independent Scotland.
Oh, hang on. I get it - Edinburger the indytroll is back and fully operational.Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 13th March 10:44
Edinburger said:
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
You're not voting for an independent Scotland with the SNP at the helm. The question is: would you now like to see Scotland as an independent country?
We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Given the failures of the government, politicians, BoE, CBI, and most 'leading' economists to predict the (pre)Brexit fallout I'm not going to start trusting SNP predictions of the future thanks very much.We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Evercross said:
Edinburger said:
It's a hypothetical question. I'm absolutely not saying it's the right thing to do, but I do think enthusiasm for another referendum is likely given the way Brexit is going.
Are you serious? The 70% figure of rejecting another Scottish referendum is being interpreted as Brexit fallout.Edinburger said:
I know a number of people who are now keener than ever to see an open discussion about an independent Scotland.
Oh, hang on. I get it - Edinburger the indytroll is back and fully operational.Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 13th March 10:44
Shambler said:
Edinburger said:
technodup said:
Edinburger said:
You're not voting for an independent Scotland with the SNP at the helm. The question is: would you now like to see Scotland as an independent country?
We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
Given the failures of the government, politicians, BoE, CBI, and most 'leading' economists to predict the (pre)Brexit fallout I'm not going to start trusting SNP predictions of the future thanks very much.We've discussed this before but the likelihood is that the SNP would cease to exist or alter dramatically if Scotland is ever an independent country.
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