CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 13)
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think you'll find there's plenty of experts who also think it's been hugely overblown. But they just tend to get 'cancelled' by MSM and mainstream Social media platforms if they dare to ask questions so it has been very one sided. IMO the lack of reasoned debate on this is the most concerning aspect of it all. paul99 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think you'll find there's plenty of experts who also think it's been hugely overblown. But they just tend to get 'cancelled' by MSM and mainstream Social media platforms if they dare to ask questions so it has been very one sided. IMO the lack of reasoned debate on this is the most concerning aspect of it all. andyeds1234 said:
paul99 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think you'll find there's plenty of experts who also think it's been hugely overblown. But they just tend to get 'cancelled' by MSM and mainstream Social media platforms if they dare to ask questions so it has been very one sided. IMO the lack of reasoned debate on this is the most concerning aspect of it all. Bingobobster said:
andyeds1234 said:
paul99 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I think you'll find there's plenty of experts who also think it's been hugely overblown. But they just tend to get 'cancelled' by MSM and mainstream Social media platforms if they dare to ask questions so it has been very one sided. IMO the lack of reasoned debate on this is the most concerning aspect of it all. 
monkfish1 said:
Bingobobster said:
My airport transport business went under in May last year. I got a job delivering for Tesco and its been grim. Pay is rubbish, conditions rubbish, and it can be hard graft, but If I hadn't been working for them, I would have almost certainly had taken up the offer of the vaccine, but being out there everyday has really opened my eyes.
I would estimate that during the last 14 months or so, for whatever reason, around a thousand drivers have come and gone.
Each driver who has lasted at least a year would have delivered to around 4000 houses each. The driver hands the crates over, the customer, most of the time, takes the crate indoors and empties it, then hands it back. The crates prior to this are touched by packers , pickers, loaders, etc etc. The 200 vans are swapped between drivers, rarely cleaned. The possible transmission of the virus via each crate alone between thousands and thousands of houses and between thousand and thousands of individuals is astronomical . I have also been into so customer many houses even when it was illegal, as there is no choice. . Mostly disabled, blind, elderly, and people not able to lift their goods into the kitchen. Many many other drivers the same. I also haven't wore a mask unless the frightened elderly customer on their doorstep asks me to. ( This has happened twice )
My point is, 14 months on, not one of our staff has died of Covid, A few have had it, but returned to work a couple of weeks later. In fact I can honestly say that there have been far more sick days taken by staff who have suffered side effects from the vaccine of having covid itself. Most deleted the App a long time ago.
Last month I went into hospital for an operation. I was in there 2 days, and when in my bed , was told I dont need to wear a mask by the hospital staff. They handed me food and regularly checked me over without wearing gloves. All staff seemed pretty relaxed, and more so than most jumped up security guards in shopping centres.
People have been frightened and overly so in my opinion. I dont think HMG meant for the level of fear to reach where it did. It amazes and saddens me to see school children walking down the road everyday, wearing masks, but for most, nothing more than a new fashion statement for the deluded.
I, like many others was probably a bit fearful when we were first told to stay indoors, but this fear didn't take long to subside. I have made my point to many people I know, and have probably lost friends over it. Mostly, the friends who have sat indoors, and refuse to dig deeper. Well , they were getting paid, so why should they ? One friend in particular has been arguing with me for months ( via whastsapp messages ) , with his view that thousands are dying blah blah blah, we cant open too soon, blahh blah. Anyway, 2 years ago he booked a 50th birthday bash to Vegas , with 12 others. He was due to go next month, but it looks unlikely. With this, and the double standards and hypocrisy of those in charge, he has now totally flipped his opinion on this nonsense. I rarely return his messages now, as it seems for many of the long time covid lovers, they only resist this nonsense when it starts to affect them directly.
An avid reader for a few weeks. My first post , probably
Welcome.I would estimate that during the last 14 months or so, for whatever reason, around a thousand drivers have come and gone.
Each driver who has lasted at least a year would have delivered to around 4000 houses each. The driver hands the crates over, the customer, most of the time, takes the crate indoors and empties it, then hands it back. The crates prior to this are touched by packers , pickers, loaders, etc etc. The 200 vans are swapped between drivers, rarely cleaned. The possible transmission of the virus via each crate alone between thousands and thousands of houses and between thousand and thousands of individuals is astronomical . I have also been into so customer many houses even when it was illegal, as there is no choice. . Mostly disabled, blind, elderly, and people not able to lift their goods into the kitchen. Many many other drivers the same. I also haven't wore a mask unless the frightened elderly customer on their doorstep asks me to. ( This has happened twice )
My point is, 14 months on, not one of our staff has died of Covid, A few have had it, but returned to work a couple of weeks later. In fact I can honestly say that there have been far more sick days taken by staff who have suffered side effects from the vaccine of having covid itself. Most deleted the App a long time ago.
Last month I went into hospital for an operation. I was in there 2 days, and when in my bed , was told I dont need to wear a mask by the hospital staff. They handed me food and regularly checked me over without wearing gloves. All staff seemed pretty relaxed, and more so than most jumped up security guards in shopping centres.
People have been frightened and overly so in my opinion. I dont think HMG meant for the level of fear to reach where it did. It amazes and saddens me to see school children walking down the road everyday, wearing masks, but for most, nothing more than a new fashion statement for the deluded.
I, like many others was probably a bit fearful when we were first told to stay indoors, but this fear didn't take long to subside. I have made my point to many people I know, and have probably lost friends over it. Mostly, the friends who have sat indoors, and refuse to dig deeper. Well , they were getting paid, so why should they ? One friend in particular has been arguing with me for months ( via whastsapp messages ) , with his view that thousands are dying blah blah blah, we cant open too soon, blahh blah. Anyway, 2 years ago he booked a 50th birthday bash to Vegas , with 12 others. He was due to go next month, but it looks unlikely. With this, and the double standards and hypocrisy of those in charge, he has now totally flipped his opinion on this nonsense. I rarely return his messages now, as it seems for many of the long time covid lovers, they only resist this nonsense when it starts to affect them directly.
An avid reader for a few weeks. My first post , probably
Its been said often enough, lockdown is for the middle and governing classes. Everyone else just had to get on with it.
It's probably quite good that PH is a very niche audience, because the number of virus deniers and anti-vaxxers has risen so highly on this thread over the last couple of weeks that it's entirely unsurprising that large numbers of people are convinced that various nonsense is true. Is Twitter sending us idiots?
And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
Ntv said:
Elysium said:
cherryowen said:
Back on 28th Feb 2020, someone posted this link on the original coronavirus thread:-
https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/bda7594740f...
Clicking the same link now shows that it was updated on a rolling basis as the pandemic progressed, and now shows data up to and including today's date.
If I scroll down the list of countries on the left to look at the numbers from China recorded to date, it shows:-
Cases = 103,969
Deaths = 4,848
This in a country where this all started, and with a population of over 1.4 billion
I've not looked at the John Hopkins site for a few months. https://www.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/bda7594740f...
Clicking the same link now shows that it was updated on a rolling basis as the pandemic progressed, and now shows data up to and including today's date.
If I scroll down the list of countries on the left to look at the numbers from China recorded to date, it shows:-
Cases = 103,969
Deaths = 4,848
This in a country where this all started, and with a population of over 1.4 billion
Interesting to see global deaths are now 4,010,596 from a total of 185,560,438 cases. That's a Case Fatality Rate of 0.216%
The Infection Fatality Rate must be much lower than the Case Fatality Rate because not all cases are diagnosed.
John Ioannidis of Stanford University published a paper suggesting a global Infection Fatality Rate of 0.23% for which he was roundly attacked:
https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.2...
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/what-the-heck-hap...
Ioannidis has now updated his estimate to an Infection Fatality Rate of 0.15%
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/e...
Johan Giesecke the retired Swedish epidemiologist was interviewed last April or May. He suggested that the way we were responding was akin to how we would act if we were encountering flu for the first time.
The difference of course is that flu kills much younger healthier people than SARS-CoV-2.
sim72 said:
It's probably quite good that PH is a very niche audience, because the number of virus deniers and anti-vaxxers has risen so highly on this thread over the last couple of weeks that it's entirely unsurprising that large numbers of people are convinced that various nonsense is true. Is Twitter sending us idiots?
And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
Oh really?And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
Who are the virus deniers and anti-vaxxers on this thread?
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
jameswills said:
Is there a danger we have simply got our
knickers in a twist over basically a mild flu season?
No, at best it’s 5 times worse, it’s actually believed to be up to ten times worse. This really isn’t the flu, or a cold. The sooner people wake up, the better.knickers in a twist over basically a mild flu season?
Maximus_Meridius101 said:
No, at best it’s 5 times worse, it’s actually believed to be up to ten times worse. This really isn’t the flu, or a cold. The sooner people wake up, the better.
10 times worse than a normal flu season? So we've had 2-300k deaths from Covid over the winter have we? 2 - 3 times I can agree with, but 10? Give over. Plus, compared to pandemic flu, rather than seasonal flu, it doesn't seem anywhere near as deadly. Closest pandemic to the one we've just been through seems to be the Russian Flu of the late 19th Century, lots of mini waves that resulted in over a million deaths. Probably worth looking into what virus the latest thinking is that caused that - hint, there is an increasing amount of evidence it was a Coronavirus. One you've probably already had numerous times.
sim72 said:
soofsayer said:
Oh really?
Who are the virus deniers and anti-vaxxers on this thread?
A quick look on the previous page should start you off there, chief. Who are the virus deniers and anti-vaxxers on this thread?
Where are the posts saying covid doesn’t exist or that vaccines are a really bad idea and must be refused?
sim72 said:
It's probably quite good that PH is a very niche audience, because the number of virus deniers and anti-vaxxers has risen so highly on this thread over the last couple of weeks that it's entirely unsurprising that large numbers of people are convinced that various nonsense is true. Is Twitter sending us idiots?
And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
I have read this thread since day 1 and also follow a few other “anti lockdown” threads.And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a comment denying that it exists.
The comparisons with flu of course accept that coronavirus and influenza are different, but are raising discussing points comparing scale/severity/strategy as more and more metrics land in the same ballpark.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a comment that does not agree vaccines are good for vulnerable people.
Covid deniers and anti vaxxers are a myth created to discredit valid arguments. I would expect someone who has been following the debate as long as you have to know better.
dmahon said:
sim72 said:
It's probably quite good that PH is a very niche audience, because the number of virus deniers and anti-vaxxers has risen so highly on this thread over the last couple of weeks that it's entirely unsurprising that large numbers of people are convinced that various nonsense is true. Is Twitter sending us idiots?
And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
I have read this thread since day 1 and also follow a few other “anti lockdown” threads.And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a comment denying that it exists.
The comparisons with flu of course accept that coronavirus and influenza are different, but are raising discussing points comparing scale/severity/strategy as more and more metrics land in the same ballpark.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a comment that does not agree vaccines are good for vulnerable people.
Covid deniers and anti vaxxers are a myth created to discredit valid arguments. I would expect someone who has been following the debate as long as you have to know better.
jameswills said:
Is there a danger we have simply got our knickers in a twist over basically a mild flu season?
This is a COVID denier. They might not specifically claim that it doesn't exist, but anyone who is claiming that 153,000 deaths is "a mild flu season" is not only provably wrong, but is merely repeating nonsense from social media. nelly1 said:
This fella might not be an typical anti-vaxxer, but is insinuating ... well, read it.And let's not start on the Schwab / WEF / Great Reset ones ...
July 19th probably needed to be done. It might go OK, it might be terrible. But the reasons for it aren't any of those things.
dmahon said:
sim72 said:
It's probably quite good that PH is a very niche audience, because the number of virus deniers and anti-vaxxers has risen so highly on this thread over the last couple of weeks that it's entirely unsurprising that large numbers of people are convinced that various nonsense is true. Is Twitter sending us idiots?
And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
I have read this thread since day 1 and also follow a few other “anti lockdown” threads.And that's coming from someone who thinks that going ahead on July 19 is the best idea ... because the alternative is a far more stupid idea.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a comment denying that it exists.
The comparisons with flu of course accept that coronavirus and influenza are different, but are raising discussing points comparing scale/severity/strategy as more and more metrics land in the same ballpark.
I don’t think I’ve ever read a comment that does not agree vaccines are good for vulnerable people.
Covid deniers and anti vaxxers are a myth created to discredit valid arguments. I would expect someone who has been following the debate as long as you have to know better.
dmahon said:
Covid deniers and anti vaxxers are a myth created to discredit valid arguments. I would expect someone who has been following the debate as long as you have to know better.
Sweeping wide and nuanced points of view and people into one homogenous and easy-to-negatively-label group just makes dehumanising them and putting 'them' down that much easier, don't ya know.See also: History.
sim72 said:
nelly1 said:
This fella might not be an typical anti-vaxxer, but is insinuating ... well, read it.And let's not start on the Schwab / WEF / Great Reset ones ...
July 19th probably needed to be done. It might go OK, it might be terrible. But the reasons for it aren't any of those things.
The DM article sets out the situation in terms of antibody response produced from booster jabs (10x more than two jabs?! which seems an insanely large amount if two jabs already protects by, what, 85? 90? 95 percent relative risk reduction?) but also sets out that even the CDC has said booster jabs are not needed yet, meanwhile Pfizer (a private company interested in a large turnover and profit margin for shareholders and Executives, obviously) says a third jab is definitely needed.
'The science', therefore, is not showing that a third jab is necessary, while a profit-motivated Big Pharma company with obvious ulterior motive, says it is.
I'm not sure that the post that has been written is therefore 'anti-vax'? Rather, it is just pointing out the obvious motivations that might be driving the position of Big Pharma when 'the science' says something else.
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