North Korea - how serious should we take them?
Discussion
Cobnapint said:
I'd say maybe not. The only way out of this situation is for NK to agree to stop playing the t
t and verifiably decommission their nuclear program, in exchange for the US stopping military exercises with the South and a steadfast guarantee that Fatty will be left alone to rule his dismal little country just the way he likes.
The first bit isn't going to happen, and therefore - neither is the second.
I actually doubt he cares less about the US/SK military exercises. All they do is support his regime really.t and verifiably decommission their nuclear program, in exchange for the US stopping military exercises with the South and a steadfast guarantee that Fatty will be left alone to rule his dismal little country just the way he likes.The first bit isn't going to happen, and therefore - neither is the second.
What I think he will do is agree to stop development/testing for a hole load of trade / cash injection from the US / lifting of sanctions.
Then most likely he will soak up as much money as he can in the short term, restart testing and we'll be back at square one.
That is if a deal is ever done, the sticking point will be on verification of the testing stopping. US will want UN inspectors there, NK will want none. Impasse
Roofless Toothless said:
On Tuesday Globs claimed that only 1.5 million died in the Holocaust. I hope he doesn't include Holocaust denial among his portfolio of conspiracy theory topics.
Rather off topic but the New York Times computed the number at 38,031 not so long ago at one camp.My figure is IIRC an official Russian one - a nation that lost 20-27m in that war but it may have been revised since.
You know the US lost under half a million troops in WWII?
Like any 70 year old event that was reported mainly by one interested party famous for the propaganda to justify the invasion and oppression of Palestine the number varies depending upon where you look.
https://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/j...
I usually find people who disagree with me - as you appear to do here - have done exactly zero research of their own but simply argue their preconceptions and assumptions against my years of careful research and reading into the subject. How much research have you done into the numbers? Your indignat-o-meter indicates you not done any - am I right? Where does your figure come from? Did you know many of the survivors living in Israel today are living below the poverty line? They should be living like kings IMO. Why aren't they? http://www.jpost.com/National-News/50000-Holocaust...
This also goes for the Korean war and 911, the people shouting the loudest are those who have studied the least. I think that's just something in our society today where it's encouraged to be blindly 'patriotic' without realising they are serving the opposite agenda. Most people would be horrified if they knew - in fact there's a website called 'if they only knew'
(http://www.ifamericaknew.org/)Your acceptable thoughts and speech is constantly shaped for you so you don't see anything that might lead to awkward questions. Questions like 'Why is a stream of molten steel pouring out of a building with burning av-gas in it?" or "Why is the US still occupying South Korea after 64 years?" or "Why did ISIS prosper under the US but die under a far smaller Russian force?"
If you look at NK objectively one has to question why the US is so desperate to start a war there?
I mean Trump could simply do what Reagan, Bush and Obama etc did and largely ignore them, it's a little like having a wasps nest in your hedge - what would you think if your yellow haired neighbour went out each day to whack it with a stick and complain loudly about the aggression of the wasps?
Edited by Globs on Sunday 1st October 11:53
Globs said:
If you look at NK objectively one has to question why the US is so desperate to start a war there?
I mean Trump could simply do what Reagan, Bush and Obama etc did and largely ignore them, it's a little like having a wasps nest in your hedge - what would you think if your yellow haired neighbour went out each day to whack it with a stick and complain loudly about the aggression of the wasps?
This has actually been discussed quite a few times on this thread.I mean Trump could simply do what Reagan, Bush and Obama etc did and largely ignore them, it's a little like having a wasps nest in your hedge - what would you think if your yellow haired neighbour went out each day to whack it with a stick and complain loudly about the aggression of the wasps?
It does not involve 911, moon landings or the holocaust however.
Globs said:
If you look at NK objectively one has to question why the US is so desperate to start a war there?
I mean Trump could simply do what Reagan, Bush and Obama etc did and largely ignore them, it's a little like having a wasps nest in your hedge - what would you think if your yellow haired neighbour went out each day to whack it with a stick and complain loudly about the aggression of the wasps?
The US isn't desperate to start a war with NK. It's desperately trying to calculate whether any of it's major cities are at risk of nuclear armageddon from the guy lobbing missiles around, conducting fusion tests and threatening to use both.I mean Trump could simply do what Reagan, Bush and Obama etc did and largely ignore them, it's a little like having a wasps nest in your hedge - what would you think if your yellow haired neighbour went out each day to whack it with a stick and complain loudly about the aggression of the wasps?
Reagan, Bush and for the most part, Obama, never had to deal with a belilgerent nuclear capable NK. Trump, in fact the world, has been lumbered with the job.
It's all still America's fault though eh.
a year and half ago Obama said , ''', 'We could destroy you,' Obama warns 'erratic' North Korean leader''.
The problem is a lot just focus on Trump thinking what he is saying is new but nothing is new, the Americans have the same stance they always have.
1992 the USA knew that NK was starting it nuclear program, it even inspected the plutonium.
''In his 2002 State of the Union address, Bush slammed the countries as “regimes that sponsor terror.”
“North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens,” Bush said.''
''During his presidency, Bill Clinton approved a plan which would provide more than $4 billion in energy aid to North Korea over 10 years. In return, North Korea was expected to disband and dismantle its nuclear weapons .''
So Bill and the USA knew about the weapons program nearly 20 years ago but nothing was done. Bolting the gate after the horse has run springs to mind.
The problem is a lot just focus on Trump thinking what he is saying is new but nothing is new, the Americans have the same stance they always have.
1992 the USA knew that NK was starting it nuclear program, it even inspected the plutonium.
''In his 2002 State of the Union address, Bush slammed the countries as “regimes that sponsor terror.”
“North Korea is a regime arming with missiles and weapons of mass destruction, while starving its citizens,” Bush said.''
''During his presidency, Bill Clinton approved a plan which would provide more than $4 billion in energy aid to North Korea over 10 years. In return, North Korea was expected to disband and dismantle its nuclear weapons .''
So Bill and the USA knew about the weapons program nearly 20 years ago but nothing was done. Bolting the gate after the horse has run springs to mind.
Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 1st October 16:07
Efbe said:
mikal83 said:
Efbe said:
98elise said:
Efbe said:
AreOut said:
CoolHands said:
I thought Russia had been experimenting with stuff like that hence why that US boat keeps crashing into tankers.
umm not really, if their GPS equipment was faulty they'd notice it long before crashing into anythingthe problem with boats crashing is crew working overtime getting tired etc. which is currently huge problem in US Navy especially 7th fleet
These are massive boats. you just don't crash them. It's not like you can take your eye off the road for a second, several people have to be s
t at their job for this to happen.My experience is the incidents/near misses I have witnessed with the USAF which were almost all ego related.
Efbe said:
98elise said:
Efbe said:
AreOut said:
CoolHands said:
I thought Russia had been experimenting with stuff like that hence why that US boat keeps crashing into tankers.
umm not really, if their GPS equipment was faulty they'd notice it long before crashing into anythingthe problem with boats crashing is crew working overtime getting tired etc. which is currently huge problem in US Navy especially 7th fleet
These are massive boats. you just don't crash them. It's not like you can take your eye off the road for a second, several people have to be s
t at their job for this to happen.Sylvaforever said:
Efbe said:
98elise said:
Efbe said:
AreOut said:
CoolHands said:
I thought Russia had been experimenting with stuff like that hence why that US boat keeps crashing into tankers.
umm not really, if their GPS equipment was faulty they'd notice it long before crashing into anythingthe problem with boats crashing is crew working overtime getting tired etc. which is currently huge problem in US Navy especially 7th fleet
These are massive boats. you just don't crash them. It's not like you can take your eye off the road for a second, several people have to be s
t at their job for this to happen.I am not American, ergo, not USAF.
Was just saying that I have seen plenty of accidents and near misses due to ego.
But good to see you can turn this into a "you weren't there man, you don't know" thread. You are right ofc, I wasn't on the bridge of the boats that crashed. Do enlighten me though.
Was just saying that I have seen plenty of accidents and near misses due to ego.
But good to see you can turn this into a "you weren't there man, you don't know" thread. You are right ofc, I wasn't on the bridge of the boats that crashed. Do enlighten me though.
mikal83 said:
Efbe said:
98elise said:
Efbe said:
AreOut said:
CoolHands said:
I thought Russia had been experimenting with stuff like that hence why that US boat keeps crashing into tankers.
umm not really, if their GPS equipment was faulty they'd notice it long before crashing into anythingthe problem with boats crashing is crew working overtime getting tired etc. which is currently huge problem in US Navy especially 7th fleet
These are massive boats. you just don't crash them. It's not like you can take your eye off the road for a second, several people have to be s
t at their job for this to happen.I've witnessed the expensive results of showboating. I've seen cocking about with warships, and I've even seen a plane hit a ship while showing off.
The Spruce goose said:
he is right though as i posted earlier this is a legacy issue and basically now musical chairs and he is the last man standing.
he's right to undermine his own secretary of state whilst he is trying hard to negotiate a deal to stop the escalating situation?No he f
king well isn't right. he's a dick.Efbe said:
he's right to undermine his own secretary of state whilst he is trying hard to negotiate a deal to stop the escalating situation?
No he fking well isn't right. he's a dick.
The USA has had 30 years to negotiate and amounted to FA. Sanctions in place with NK, nothing to negotiate. The problem is there are so many headline pundits who live of the top stories they just don't really know the history as well as the other issues taking place.No he f
king well isn't right. he's a dick.Edited by The Spruce goose on Sunday 1st October 23:40
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