To BONG or not to BONG, that is the question
Discussion
Rewe said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
No that is not what I am saying, but if you are disputing the fact, that if the UK had not been the `one. country to prevent the Nazis from overtaking them, the outcome of WW2 is quite likely to have been very different, it seems to be very odd.
What possible difference does the fact that it was 75 years ago make to the situation?
If the allies had not prevailed in WW2, it is quite likely that the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party, that, or we would either be slaves to the Nazis or more likely disposed of by them. So the freedom that Europe currently enjoys is a direct result of the UK not succumbing to Nazi Germany in WW2.
Yep, I get that but help me out, because I’m still not quite following your line of argument. What is the relevance to our leaving (or not) the EU in 2020?What possible difference does the fact that it was 75 years ago make to the situation?
If the allies had not prevailed in WW2, it is quite likely that the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party, that, or we would either be slaves to the Nazis or more likely disposed of by them. So the freedom that Europe currently enjoys is a direct result of the UK not succumbing to Nazi Germany in WW2.
The point I was making was that if the UK had not been the one country to not be taken over by the Nazis in WW2, then Europe including the UK, would quite likely be part of, and under the control of the Nazi party now.
So Europe is free today, because the UK was the key country that made the Allies success over the Nazis finally possible. If people cannot see that, there is not much else that can be said about it.. .
Pan Pan Pan said:
As far as I can see there is no relevance to our leaving the EU.
The point I was making was that if the UK had not been the one country to not be taken over by the Nazis in WW2, then Europe including the UK, would quite likely be part of, and under the control of the Nazi party now.
So Europe is free today, because the UK was the key country that made the Allies success over the Nazis finally possible. If people cannot see that, there is not much else that can be said about it.. .
Everybody on the thread appreciates the importance of the UK in the Second World War effort.The point I was making was that if the UK had not been the one country to not be taken over by the Nazis in WW2, then Europe including the UK, would quite likely be part of, and under the control of the Nazi party now.
So Europe is free today, because the UK was the key country that made the Allies success over the Nazis finally possible. If people cannot see that, there is not much else that can be said about it.. .
citizensm1th said:
You know the weather forecast is little more than a guess 11 days in advance don't you? Oh wait you believed the treasury when they predicted 800,000 more unemployed, house prices in freefall, inflation at 4% and a 40 billion increase in public borrowing if we voted to leave didn't you...Silly me... carry on...
Vanden Saab said:
citizensm1th said:
You know the weather forecast is little more than a guess 11 days in advance don't you? Oh wait you believed the treasury when they predicted 800,000 more unemployed, house prices in freefall, inflation at 4% and a 40 billion increase in public borrowing if we voted to leave didn't you...Silly me... carry on...
personally i am hoping for this cold spell to hang on and for it to snow
Brooking10 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
Tell me, how did your Dads Dad (Grandfather) get there? Sorry but I cannot help it, if you are stupid, that is your problem!
Yes we know the point you are trying to makeEdited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 20th January 20:13
It is perfectly acceptable to say the following, both of which are indisputable facts:
1 - the UK was integral, indeed vital, in winning the war in Europe
2 - the UK would not have won the war in Europe without either the US or Russia
A free Europe exists because of a combination of the above.
The idea that much of Europe is not grateful to us, or our allies at the time, is a fallacy. You only need to visit the many war grave sites and surrounding areas, from both wars, to see that.
It was however 75 years ago and the world moves on. Europe can balance that gratitude without needing to in some way to feel subservient.
Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
citizensm1th said:
Vanden Saab said:
citizensm1th said:
You know the weather forecast is little more than a guess 11 days in advance don't you? Oh wait you believed the treasury when they predicted 800,000 more unemployed, house prices in freefall, inflation at 4% and a 40 billion increase in public borrowing if we voted to leave didn't you...Silly me... carry on...
personally i am hoping for this cold spell to hang on and for it to snow
Pan Pan Pan said:
OK, I will ask the question again. With the technology that was available at the time, how was the US going to be able to launch a successful D-Day from the other side of the Atlantic?
Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
Do you believe the Germans could have maintained their grip on the Uk for long had they invaded and then engaged on other fronts more demanding of their manpower ?Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
What if's are a bugger aren't they.
Pan Pan Pan said:
OK, I will ask the question again. With the technology that was available at the time, how was the US going to be able to launch a successful D-Day from the other side of the Atlantic?
Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
You are going round in circles Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
What is your point ?
Nobody disagrees with you that the UK was absolutely vital in how the war was won.
Why this is relevant to our leaving the EU is a mystery none of seems able to solve
Pan Pan Pan said:
OK, I will ask the question again. With the technology that was available at the time, how was the US goin .... Blah ... successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
So what? What has that got to do with the topic being discussed?How about if Matilda had whooped Stephen's arse good and proper? Would that change whether temporarily rebuilding a floor in a building under restoration in order to ring a bell to mark an occasion that damn nearly half the country think is an act of idiocy at a cost of a few 100k is ... or is, perhaps, not ... a brilliant idea?
Brooking10 said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
As far as I can see there is no relevance to our leaving the EU.
The point I was making was that if the UK had not been the one country to not be taken over by the Nazis in WW2, then Europe including the UK, would quite likely be part of, and under the control of the Nazi party now.
So Europe is free today, because the UK was the key country that made the Allies success over the Nazis finally possible. If people cannot see that, there is not much else that can be said about it.. .
Everybody on the thread appreciates the importance of the UK in the Second World War effort.The point I was making was that if the UK had not been the one country to not be taken over by the Nazis in WW2, then Europe including the UK, would quite likely be part of, and under the control of the Nazi party now.
So Europe is free today, because the UK was the key country that made the Allies success over the Nazis finally possible. If people cannot see that, there is not much else that can be said about it.. .
Without the UK, all of the freedom currently enjoyed by Europe would not be possible, Because without the UK, the US would have had no where to launch the fight against the Nazis from.
If the UK had fallen, it is doubtful if the US would even had bothered to try to do so, They possibly would just have concluded their war with the Japanese, and then gone back to the isolationist stance they had before Pearl Harbour.
Some don't seem to realize how important the UK being the ONE country that did not let itself be taken over by the Nazis, actually was for the outcome of WW2,.It was the absolute game changer for the whole conflict..
Pan Pan Pan said:
Without the UK (the one country that did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party in WW2) there would be no Europe, or EU now. just the Third Reich.
Without the UK, all of the freedom currently enjoyed by Europe would not be possible, Because without the UK, the US would have had no where to launch the fight against the Nazis from.
If the UK had fallen, it is doubtful if the US would even had bothered to try to do so, They possibly would just have concluded their war with the Japanese, and then gone back to the isolationist stance they had before Pearl Harbour.
Some don't seem to realize how important the UK being the ONE country that did not let itself be taken over by the Nazis, actually was for the outcome of WW2,.It was the absolute game changer for the whole conflict..
some on here would have us believe the EU is the third reich/ussr which kind of makes all the effort of ww2 a bit silly really.Without the UK, all of the freedom currently enjoyed by Europe would not be possible, Because without the UK, the US would have had no where to launch the fight against the Nazis from.
If the UK had fallen, it is doubtful if the US would even had bothered to try to do so, They possibly would just have concluded their war with the Japanese, and then gone back to the isolationist stance they had before Pearl Harbour.
Some don't seem to realize how important the UK being the ONE country that did not let itself be taken over by the Nazis, actually was for the outcome of WW2,.It was the absolute game changer for the whole conflict..
almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
Dont like rolls said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
OK, I will ask the question again. With the technology that was available at the time, how was the US going to be able to launch a successful D-Day from the other side of the Atlantic?
Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
Do you believe the Germans could have maintained their grip on the Uk for long had they invaded and then engaged on other fronts more demanding of their manpower ?Why do people keep wittering on about how long ago it was? If it had not happened, all of Europe, including the UK would now be a fully paid up province of the Nazi party.
After the hostilities had subsided DE Gaulle, asked an American general to get US troops off France`s soil, as quickly as possible, to which the US general replied, do you just mean the ones who are still above the ground?
There is little doubt that without the combined efforts of the Allies, we and Europe, would now be members of the Nazi party, but without the UK being the one country which did not let itself be taken over by the Nazi party, it provided the one, and only place that the defeat of the Nazis could be launched from.
If the UK had fallen to Nazi Germany, do you seriously believe the US would have, or even could launched a successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
What if's are a bugger aren't they.
I have little doubt the Nazis would have walked over Russia, and controlled all of Europe including the UK. With the UK and therefore the US out of the picture, they could concentrate most of their forces against Russia, instead of having to fight on several fronts. If the UK had not prevailed there would be no assistance from the US for the UK or Russia.
ATG said:
Pan Pan Pan said:
OK, I will ask the question again. With the technology that was available at the time, how was the US goin .... Blah ... successful attack on Nazi controlled Europe, from the Eastern Seaboard of the United States?
So what? What has that got to do with the topic being discussed?How about if Matilda had whooped Stephen's arse good and proper? Would that change whether temporarily rebuilding a floor in a building under restoration in order to ring a bell to mark an occasion that damn nearly half the country think is an act of idiocy at a cost of a few 100k is ... or is, perhaps, not ... a brilliant idea?
Justice and democracy prevail who could ask for more than that?
citizensm1th said:
some on here would have us believe the EU is the third reich/ussr which kind of makes all the effort of ww2 a bit silly really.
almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
Some always push to the extreme example to gain traction (in their heads).almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
The accusations is from me (not worth much other than my single vote) is that the structure of a centralised Eu system is developing towards (has already) Federation with a pyramid type structure. So yes much like that of the Soviet union. Add to that the more active "Socialist" political parties active and in power thought many countries within the Eu and the stench becomes to many, if it smells like a pig now, it will be a pig later.
catweasle said:
Dont like rolls said:
We do, we know you know and you really should know that we know and that you know
ah yeh but we don't know what we don't know do we?Do you have a spare main brain fuse I can borrow ? One of mine has got a dry joint.
Dont like rolls said:
citizensm1th said:
some on here would have us believe the EU is the third reich/ussr which kind of makes all the effort of ww2 a bit silly really.
almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
Some always push to the extreme example to gain traction (in their heads).almost as silly as what ifs about events 70 years ago
The accusations is from me (not worth much other than my single vote) is that the structure of a centralised Eu system is developing towards (has already) Federation with a pyramid type structure. So yes much like that of the Soviet union. Add to that the more active "Socialist" political parties active and in power in many countries within the Eu and the stench becomes to much for many, if it smells like a pig now, it will be a pig later.
Dont like rolls said:
catweasle said:
Dont like rolls said:
We do, we know you know and you really should know that we know and that you know
ah yeh but we don't know what we don't know do we?Do you have a spare main brain fuse I can borrow ? One of mine has got a dry joint.
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