How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 8)

[alfie2244]

Robertj21a said:

alfie2244 said:

Perhaps I have Alzheimers as I am certain there was some number on my voting sheet and that number was recorded against my name

Surely, the number is just on your voting card that tells you where the vote is to take place etc. Your (anonymous) voting paper is only given to you once they've validated that you are entitled to vote.

Not how I remember it.............they were X referenced IIRC.

[Camoradi]

jsf said:

alfie2244 said:

And yet they know your voter registration number from which, I believe they can also obtain your identifying information such as your date of birth and national insurance number etc, .........just in case a apparently?

There is nothing on the ballot paper to identify you.

Who attends to vote is logged via your electoral register info, which is how they stop you voting multiple times or voting illegally.

At the last couple of General Elections I have raised this with the person who handed me the ballot paper They crossed my name off on a list and against my name wrote the serial number from the ballot paper which they hand me. I pointed out that this could enable someone to find out who i had voted for but they assured me. "No that won't happen" It still didn't feel right to me though....

[alfie2244]

Camoradi said:

jsf said:

alfie2244 said:

And yet they know your voter registration number from which, I believe they can also obtain your identifying information such as your date of birth and national insurance number etc, .........just in case a apparently?

There is nothing on the ballot paper to identify you.

Who attends to vote is logged via your electoral register info, which is how they stop you voting multiple times or voting illegally.

At the last couple of General Elections I have raised this with the person who handed me the ballot paper They crossed my name off on a list and against my name wrote the serial number from the ballot paper which they hand me. I pointed out that this could enable someone to find out who i had voted for but they assured me. "No that won't happen" It still didn't feel right to me though....

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[Tuna]

Earthdweller said:

https://order-order.com/

https://www.facebook.com/160128910791789/posts/132...

George Eustace resigns from the Govt

Interesting resignation letter

Resigning on a point of principle? I'm sure Helicopter123 will be along in a moment to call him a "True Patriot"

[SpeckledJim]

alfie2244 said:

Camoradi said:

jsf said:

alfie2244 said:

And yet they know your voter registration number from which, I believe they can also obtain your identifying information such as your date of birth and national insurance number etc, .........just in case a apparently?

There is nothing on the ballot paper to identify you.

Who attends to vote is logged via your electoral register info, which is how they stop you voting multiple times or voting illegally.

At the last couple of General Elections I have raised this with the person who handed me the ballot paper They crossed my name off on a list and against my name wrote the serial number from the ballot paper which they hand me. I pointed out that this could enable someone to find out who i had voted for but they assured me. "No that won't happen" It still didn't feel right to me though....

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

TBH, I believe it won't happen, but I thought it could.

This is one of the good things about the UK - when a figure in a position of authority tells you something related to matters of integrity in civic life, you can, by-and-large, trust them to be honest and correct.

Now, what are we talking about today...

[PurpleMoonlight]

alfie2244 said:

Not how I remember it.............they were X referenced IIRC.

First against the wall if it all goes badly then.

[bodhi]

Tuna said:

Earthdweller said:

https://order-order.com/

https://www.facebook.com/160128910791789/posts/132...

George Eustace resigns from the Govt

Interesting resignation letter

Resigning on a point of principle? I'm sure Helicopter123 will be along in a moment to call him a "True Patriot"

Great post.

[alfie2244]

SpeckledJim said:

TBH, I believe it won't happen, but I thought it could.

This is one of the good things about the UK - when a figure in a position of authority tells you something related to matters of integrity in civic life, you can, by-and-large, trust them to be honest and correct.

Now, what are we talking about today...

Put that info into a database and then what??????????? I'd be willing to bet a "Cambridge analytica" would have loved to get their hands on it.

[alfie2244]

PurpleMoonlight said:

alfie2244 said:

Not how I remember it.............they were X referenced IIRC.

First against the wall if it all goes badly then.

You are 100% safe

[Red Devil]

Pan Pan Pan said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Do you seriously believe that those who voted to leave in 2016 would accept the results of a second referendum if it showed a win for remain, especially if the results were at similar percentages to those of the first? . Why would the result of a second referendum be any more valid, than the result of the first one in 2016?

They are both equally valid.

The 2016 reflected the consensus of the people in 2016.

The 2019 would reflect the consensus of the people in 2019.

If the 2019 was different to the 2016 why should the 2016 be implemented?

Why should the result of the 2016 referendum be ignored in the first place?
I am all for another referendum on the UK`s membership of the EU, but only when the result of the first one has been democratically enacted upon. Say in 40 years time, when people have had the chance to see what it is like outside the EU. that way they can make a truly informed decision on whether being in or out is best for the UK.
If the result of the first (2016) referendum is ignored, why should anyone take any notice of the result of a second referendum?

While we're at it why not change the rules for General Elections? If the result is a narrow win for X, Y can have a moan/rant and call for a fresh ballot.
If/when Y wins by an equally narrow margin, X can do likewise.

A question for PurpleMoonlight: would you throw your support behind this proposal. If not, why not?

@Pan, Pan. Pan, for all you or I know the EU may have disintegrated in another 40 years. If it hasn't, do you believe that:
a) We would be allowed back in without further consequences for having the temerity to leave?
b) There would no bar on any further attempt to do so?

'Project Europe' is an evolutionary process towards a defined long term goal. Monnet's Step-by-Step.
The rules get changed along the way. The various Treaties are testament. to that.

[PurpleMoonlight]

alfie2244 said:

You are 100% safe

No fool me.

[FiF]

alfie2244 said:

Robertj21a said:

alfie2244 said:

Perhaps I have Alzheimers as I am certain there was some number on my voting sheet and that number was recorded against my name

Surely, the number is just on your voting card that tells you where the vote is to take place etc. Your (anonymous) voting paper is only given to you once they've validated that you are entitled to vote.

No how I remember it.............they were X referenced IIRC.

Each ballot paper is numbered. Once they have identified who you are and you are eligible to vote, your name and number is read out, a line is put on the register against, but not through, your entry on the list.

When the Presiding officer or poll clerk issues the numbered ballot paper, which are issued in sequence, they read out the ballot paper number. The poll clerk or presiding officer with the ballot paper number list then writes your voter number on that list, but not on the ballot paper itself.

On the instruction to poll staff is the paragraph in bold "Always enter the elector number on the corresponding (ballot paper) number list."

In summary how you vote is traceable, not easy but definitely possible.

Source Govt instructions to polling staff.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Red Devil said:

While we're at it why not change the rules for General Elections? If the result is a narrow win for X, Y can have a moan/rant and call for a fresh ballot.
If/when Y wins by an equally narrow margin, X can do likewise.

A question for PurpleMoonlight: would you throw your support behind this proposal. If not, why not?

Do what you like, doesn't worry me I don't participate.

I would prefer a little tax payers money is wasted on elections/referendums though.

[SpeckledJim]

Red Devil said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Do you seriously believe that those who voted to leave in 2016 would accept the results of a second referendum if it showed a win for remain, especially if the results were at similar percentages to those of the first? . Why would the result of a second referendum be any more valid, than the result of the first one in 2016?

They are both equally valid.

The 2016 reflected the consensus of the people in 2016.

The 2019 would reflect the consensus of the people in 2019.

If the 2019 was different to the 2016 why should the 2016 be implemented?

Why should the result of the 2016 referendum be ignored in the first place?
I am all for another referendum on the UK`s membership of the EU, but only when the result of the first one has been democratically enacted upon. Say in 40 years time, when people have had the chance to see what it is like outside the EU. that way they can make a truly informed decision on whether being in or out is best for the UK.
If the result of the first (2016) referendum is ignored, why should anyone take any notice of the result of a second referendum?

While we're at it why not change the rules for General Elections? If the result is a narrow win for X, Y can have a moan/rant and call for a fresh ballot.
If/when Y wins by an equally narrow margin, X can do likewise.

A question for PurpleMoonlight: would you throw your support behind this proposal. If not, why not?

@Pan, Pan. Pan, for all you or I know the EU may have disintegrated in another 40 years. If it hasn't, do you believe that:
a) We would be allowed back in without further consequences for having the temerity to leave?
b) There would no bar on any further attempt to do so?

'Project Europe' is an evolutionary process towards a defined long term goal. Monnet's Step-by-Step.
The rules get changed along the way. The various Treaties are testament. to that.

If we're still richer than their average we'd certainly be let back in.

The consequences would be approximately proportionate to how rich we are. If we're rolling in filthy lucre I expect we could negotiate some concessions in return for feeding starving Germany or something.

If we're on our uppers, then I expect they'd require us to embrace every single bad idea they've got, and say thank you for it.

They let pretty-much everyone in though. Whether they're rich or not. It's an empire. Empires are expansionist by their very nature.

[Helicopter123]

SunsetZed said:

Helicopter123 said:

toppstuff said:

Robertj21a said:

I'm still finding it quite difficult to see how Remain could possibly increase their 48% at all. Surely, it's far more likely that Leave would increase slightly.

We just seem to be wasting valuable time before we get out once and for all.

Here is one theory

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/brexit-second-refe...

Yes, that tallies with my own thinking, a demographic shift has happened.

New voters are very pro-remain, while the elderly are pro-leave.

Equally however, I sense that many who voted leave were sold a false prospectus. Greater scrutiny this time around on leave would prevent a repeat of the lies form 2016. I think Remain will poll 60% +

That's because, and I'm basing this on your other posts, you're either unbelievably blinkered in your view or just trying to get a response.

Either way I firmly do not believe that remain would poll 60% and would love to pay off my mortgage. How big a bet would you like to put on this?

I don't gamble by choice, but I'm sure a bookmaker will gladly take your money.

It is a fact that demographics move in favour of remain - older pro-brexit voters are dying, and new pre-remain voters are joining the electoral role. This has been a milder winter but even so demographics have continued to improve.

This time around, scrutiny on leave will be intense and any lies told will be exposed. In many ways, this is the direct opposite of 2016 when remain were under huge scrutiny, and leave could (and did) get away with spouting any old nonsense.

We've also had three years now of understanding just how bad Brexit would be, while no-one has been able to make a positive case for it, other than a few who think chlorinated chicken is a benefit.

Remain will win very easily.

[alfie2244]

FiF said:

In summary how you vote is traceable, not easy but definitely possible.

Source Govt instructions to polling staff.

So I don't have Alzheimer after all

[SpeckledJim]

Helicopter123 said:

I don't gamble by choice, but I'm sure a bookmaker will gladly take your money.

It is a fact that demographics move in favour of remain - older pro-brexit voters are dying, and new pre-remain voters are joining the electoral role. This has been a milder winter but even so demographics have continued to improve.

This time around, scrutiny on leave will be intense and any lies told will be exposed. In many ways, this is the direct opposite of 2016 when remain were under huge scrutiny, and leave could (and did) get away with spouting any old nonsense.

We've also had three years now of understanding just how bad Brexit would be, while no-one has been able to make a positive case for it, other than a few who think chlorinated chicken is a benefit.

Remain will win very easily.

If you wound it back a bit you'd get a lot more bites and it could actually be quite good fun.

[amusingduck]

SpeckledJim said:

Helicopter123 said:

I don't gamble by choice, but I'm sure a bookmaker will gladly take your money.

It is a fact that demographics move in favour of remain - older pro-brexit voters are dying, and new pre-remain voters are joining the electoral role. This has been a milder winter but even so demographics have continued to improve.

This time around, scrutiny on leave will be intense and any lies told will be exposed. In many ways, this is the direct opposite of 2016 when remain were under huge scrutiny, and leave could (and did) get away with spouting any old nonsense.

We've also had three years now of understanding just how bad Brexit would be, while no-one has been able to make a positive case for it, other than a few who think chlorinated chicken is a benefit.

Remain will win very easily.

If you wound it back a bit you'd get a lot more bites and it could actually be quite good fun.

Poe's Law

[wc98]

Roman Rhodes said:

The Midlands Beach Front Property Forum isn't really my thing (are you trying to offload a timeshare?) nor squirrel spotting. I asked who these "real crazies" are. If your answer is just "new parties springing up" then it isn't very enlightening. Parties have to have someone organising them and gain members. Who are these people? Our electoral system (unlike those of the countries you mention) doesn't have a great track record in allowing "crazies" or anyone else to get any traction (BNP, NF, UKIP etc.). Trying to help you out, are you thinking of something like Leave Means Leave? I don't see an organisation that is backed exclusively by wealthy, white, middle-aged to middle-aged+ men getting anywhere. So, again, who are the crazies and who is going to vote for them?

no crazies to vote for ? yet corbyn is leading the labour party.

[andymadmak]

Helicopter123 said:

It is a fact that demographics move in favour of remain - older pro-brexit voters are dying, and new pre-remain voters are joining the electoral role. This has been a milder winter but even so demographics have continued to improve.

and younger voters get older and change their minds.... but we have been through this umpteen times.

Helicopter123 said:

This time around, scrutiny on leave will be intense and any lies told will be exposed.

I agree, and that will apply to both sides. Do you genuinely believe that the Remain camp will be allowed to get away unchallenged with the tripe they threw around last time?
And while we are at it, do you think Remain will be allowed a £9 million pound campaign boost in the form of a free letter to every household, at the exclusion of similar funding for Brexit?

Helicopter123 said:

In many ways, this is the direct opposite of 2016 when remain were under huge scrutiny, and leave could (and did) get away with spouting any old nonsense.

As I said both sides will be subjected to more scrutiny and that is a very good thing. So what do you imagine the Remain position will be in regards to our future participation in the EU (in the event of a Remain win). Do all Remain voters want the same thing? Do you know what you are voting for (not least because even now, what some thought they were voting for in 2016 has already been superseded - Mr Clegg in particular must be feeling very embarrassed about his accusation that Mr Farage was lying about an EU army....

Helicopter123 said:

We've also had three years now of understanding just how bad Brexit would be, while no-one has been able to make a positive case for it, other than a few who think chlorinated chicken is a benefit.

Oh you had to go and spoil it with this silliness. There have been many positive reasons offered for Brexit, as you well know. That you don't agree with them does not make them any less valid. What has been genuinely lacking over the past five years has been any genuine positive reason to remain articulated by even the most ardent Remainers beyond 'we're all going to suffer horribly if we even so much as vote to leave' - which as you must surely concede has been thoroughly trashed as an idea!

Helicopter123 said:

Remain will win very easily.

I admire your optimism and blind faith. Reality might bite you though

Edited to add, The only positive thing about a second referendum would be that there must surely be massive pressure on the Govt. to prepare credible plans for a Brexit result?

Edited by andymadmak on Thursday 28th February 16:00