CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
RemarkLima said:
I know what you mean, but cash is a massive staple for many businesses and operations.
An example is a hardware shop. You buy a pack of screws for £1. With a card payment there's probably about 5 - 10p of transaction fees, for some cards higher... Some will have a minimum of 25p for example!
With cash, the £1 goes into the till. If that went to the bank, then the cash handling fees would be much higher than the card fees but...
They can buy stock from the the wholesalers in cash.
The wholesalers buys from the their suppliers in cash and pays some wages in cash. This doesn't mean that they're dodging tax but does mean that they the banks are not skimming fees for every cash movement. That £1 would be probably about 20p at the end of the chain with the 80p going to banks... Ouch!
Cashless will drive prices and inflation upwards transferring a shed ton more money to banks than they already get!
Then you get the building work for cash, no VAT etc...
This An example is a hardware shop. You buy a pack of screws for £1. With a card payment there's probably about 5 - 10p of transaction fees, for some cards higher... Some will have a minimum of 25p for example!
With cash, the £1 goes into the till. If that went to the bank, then the cash handling fees would be much higher than the card fees but...
They can buy stock from the the wholesalers in cash.
The wholesalers buys from the their suppliers in cash and pays some wages in cash. This doesn't mean that they're dodging tax but does mean that they the banks are not skimming fees for every cash movement. That £1 would be probably about 20p at the end of the chain with the 80p going to banks... Ouch!
Cashless will drive prices and inflation upwards transferring a shed ton more money to banks than they already get!
Then you get the building work for cash, no VAT etc...
And have you ever tried a night out with your mates (remember pubs?) doing the cashless thing?
I’ve tried it once, and my missus was fuming the next day. I found it impossible to keep track of what I’d spent
RemarkLima said:
garyhun said:
danllama said:
Apart from the odd bit of change for tips, I haven’t used cash since contactless was launched. Am I missing something?An example is a hardware shop. You buy a pack of screws for £1. With a card payment there's probably about 5 - 10p of transaction fees, for some cards higher... Some will have a minimum of 25p for example!
With cash, the £1 goes into the till. If that went to the bank, then the cash handling fees would be much higher than the card fees but...
They can buy stock from the the wholesalers in cash.
The wholesalers buys from the their suppliers in cash and pays some wages in cash. This doesn't mean that they're dodging tax but does mean that they the banks are not skimming fees for every cash movement. That £1 would be probably about 20p at the end of the chain with the 80p going to banks... Ouch!
Cashless will drive prices and inflation upwards transferring a shed ton more money to banks than they already get!
Then you get the building work for cash, no VAT etc... Which is a different matter, and a tax dodge etc... Which will be the guise this is used as.
Edited by RemarkLima on Tuesday 2nd March 07:59
garyhun said:
And that answers my “am I missing something?” question. In a nice way too, take note danllama!
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design! Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
RemarkLima said:
garyhun said:
And that answers my “am I missing something?” question. In a nice way too, take note danllama!
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design! Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
My personal and business accounts both don’t.
RemarkLima said:
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design!
Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
I'm not sure you're going to be right on that.Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
p1stonhead said:
RemarkLima said:
garyhun said:
And that answers my “am I missing something?” question. In a nice way too, take note danllama!
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design! Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
My personal and business accounts both don’t.
They bundle up and re-charge the fees to their clients.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
RemarkLima said:
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design!
Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
I'm not sure you're going to be right on that.Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
They make a lot of international payments, and because of the volume hopefully have a discount
But I may have the wrong end of the stick from their finance team and there may be some tricks they perform?
RemarkLima said:
p1stonhead said:
RemarkLima said:
garyhun said:
And that answers my “am I missing something?” question. In a nice way too, take note danllama!
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design! Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
My personal and business accounts both don’t.
They bundle up and re-charge the fees to their clients.
m3jappa said:
I dont get the vaccine force argument.
I spoke to a mates mum yesterday, she's been vaccinated which is fine and her choice and at her age makes sense.
But she went on to say how selfish her son and other people are who dont want the vaccine, she used the argument of 'how selfish to put me at risk because they dont think the vaccine is safe'
I have seen similar arguments on facebook many times as well.
Can people really be that narrow minded that they think that even though they have been vaccinated they are still somehow at risk if other people haven't had it. Seriously?
Or am i wrong? common sense tells me that if they have had it then they will be 'safe'.
This is what I struggle with as well. Logically, if someone has the vaccine they are protected from serious illness (not yet proven if it stops you getting it) so the fact that the person next to them hasn’t, shouldn’t affect the vaccinated person. I spoke to a mates mum yesterday, she's been vaccinated which is fine and her choice and at her age makes sense.
But she went on to say how selfish her son and other people are who dont want the vaccine, she used the argument of 'how selfish to put me at risk because they dont think the vaccine is safe'
I have seen similar arguments on facebook many times as well.
Can people really be that narrow minded that they think that even though they have been vaccinated they are still somehow at risk if other people haven't had it. Seriously?
Or am i wrong? common sense tells me that if they have had it then they will be 'safe'.
If you follow it through, as far as they are telling us, a vaccinated person can still get the virus, not know they have it and potentially pass it on to someone who, for perfectly good reasons, is unable to have the vaccine.
The only way the unvaccinated person is maybe being selfish is that they could potentially have a bad case of the Virus and end up in hospital possibly depriving someone who has had the vaccine a bed.
m3jappa said:
I dont get the vaccine force argument.
I spoke to a mates mum yesterday, she's been vaccinated which is fine and her choice and at her age makes sense.
But she went on to say how selfish her son and other people are who dont want the vaccine, she used the argument of 'how selfish to put me at risk because they dont think the vaccine is safe'
I have seen similar arguments on facebook many times as well.
Can people really be that narrow minded that they think that even though they have been vaccinated they are still somehow at risk if other people haven't had it. Seriously?
Or am i wrong? common sense tells me that if they have had it then they will be 'safe'.
You’re not wrong.I spoke to a mates mum yesterday, she's been vaccinated which is fine and her choice and at her age makes sense.
But she went on to say how selfish her son and other people are who dont want the vaccine, she used the argument of 'how selfish to put me at risk because they dont think the vaccine is safe'
I have seen similar arguments on facebook many times as well.
Can people really be that narrow minded that they think that even though they have been vaccinated they are still somehow at risk if other people haven't had it. Seriously?
Or am i wrong? common sense tells me that if they have had it then they will be 'safe'.
This appears to be the only vaccine ever created that only works for the recipients if everyone else has also had the jab.
It’s the ‘purification’ mass hysteria described in the article I linked to yesterday.
https://sites.google.com/site/edwardhadas/the-war-...
p1stonhead said:
Maybe they should move to any number of other banks that don’t charge per transaction?
At the moment, opening a new business bank account is anything but straightforward.https://smallbusiness.co.uk/most-banks-not-allowin...
p1stonhead said:
RemarkLima said:
p1stonhead said:
RemarkLima said:
garyhun said:
And that answers my “am I missing something?” question. In a nice way too, take note danllama!
You're welcome, the underbelly of it all is so far from the the public knowledge I'm sure it's by design! Another example, a client of mine has to pay £7 to RBS for every payment from their accounts! £7!! And they make about 6000 payments per month... If they could avoid the bank fees, they'd be very happy ;-) they're an extreme case but shows how quickly banking fees can mount up for businesses.
My personal and business accounts both don’t.
They bundle up and re-charge the fees to their clients.
I've had a look at Revolut - but can't use this for business really, maybe if you start paying monthly fees as well
Digga said:
p1stonhead said:
Maybe they should move to any number of other banks that don’t charge per transaction?
At the moment, opening a new business bank account is anything but straightforward.https://smallbusiness.co.uk/most-banks-not-allowin...
Impressed overall with them though I must say.
Boringvolvodriver said:
This is what I struggle with as well. Logically, if someone has the vaccine they are protected from serious illness (not yet proven if it stops you getting it) so the fact that the person next to them hasn’t, shouldn’t affect the vaccinated person.
If you follow it through, as far as they are telling us, a vaccinated person can still get the virus, not know they have it and potentially pass it on to someone who, for perfectly good reasons, is unable to have the vaccine.
The only way the unvaccinated person is maybe being selfish is that they could potentially have a bad case of the Virus and end up in hospital possibly depriving someone who has had the vaccine a bed.
Not everyone can have the vaccine, not everyone will be protected by the vaccine even if they do have it. Someone did the maths up the thread. It still leaves hundreds of thousand vulnerable within the most vulnerable groups. It now looks as if the having the vaccine does reduce the chances of transmission so the risk to others is reduced. This is not unique and is exactly the same for most mass vaccination programs, including those where diseases have been eradicated. The number of people needing to be vaccinated, for herd immunity, is unclear but it is likely to be above 70%. Obviously the "Worse" the vaccine is the higher the number. If you follow it through, as far as they are telling us, a vaccinated person can still get the virus, not know they have it and potentially pass it on to someone who, for perfectly good reasons, is unable to have the vaccine.
The only way the unvaccinated person is maybe being selfish is that they could potentially have a bad case of the Virus and end up in hospital possibly depriving someone who has had the vaccine a bed.
These predate Covid
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/why-vac...
https://www.immunology.org/celebrate-vaccines/publ...
Edited by Graveworm on Tuesday 2nd March 09:03
danllama said:
Yeah, nobody was talking about this before COVID came alonghttps://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=15...
garyhun said:
danllama said:
garyhun said:
danllama said:
Apart from the odd bit of change for tips, I haven’t used cash since contactless was launched. Am I missing something?I'm fairly neutral on the subject tbh but I can't see much positives of going cashless. I imagine such a system would be extremely vulnerable to malicious activity, fraud/hacking.
Well that’s a new one on me.
Twinfan said:
I keep having to explain to my mum why having recently had the virus means I'm not bothering with the vaccine. She's very medical savvy but has completely fallen for the message that only the vaccine can save the world and I need to have it to protect myself. Erm, I think my infection acquired immunity will do me just fine, Mum...
This is the thing that is quite puzzling through this whole mess. People who are usually entirely rational and even more so for those who should have a better understanding of the subject matter ie doctor/medical types seem to have completely lost their senses in large numbers. And everything points to sterilising immunity only lasting a relatively short time while protective immunity (which is what really matters) should last much longer. The whole messaging is now so wrapped around reduction of transmission so we must be stuck with a needle..... exactly how often are we going to need doing so in future.......?
p1stonhead said:
danllama said:
garyhun said:
danllama said:
Apart from the odd bit of change for tips, I haven’t used cash since contactless was launched. Am I missing something?I'm fairly neutral on the subject tbh but I can't see much positives of going cashless. I imagine such a system would be extremely vulnerable to malicious activity, fraud/hacking. And seeing the behaviour of the state this last year I would not trust them to not meddle with people's private accounts if they deemed it for "the greater good".
Edited by danllama on Tuesday 2nd March 07:29
I haven’t used cash for probably a couple of years and that’s not exaggerating. I’ve probably had a tenner here and there for something.
I haven’t had literally any need for it. How on earth is it selfish?
You do realise a majority of people do it every day and never get ‘hacked’?
Are you saying you don’t do online banking that’s been around for probably 20 years?
In fact it’s likely way longer than a couple of years since I used cash considering last year was covid year.
I haven’t actually taken my bank card out of a drawer for a year since I added it to my phone actually. The horror!
Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 2nd March 07:54
danllama said:
p1stonhead said:
danllama said:
garyhun said:
danllama said:
Apart from the odd bit of change for tips, I haven’t used cash since contactless was launched. Am I missing something?I'm fairly neutral on the subject tbh but I can't see much positives of going cashless. I imagine such a system would be extremely vulnerable to malicious activity, fraud/hacking. And seeing the behaviour of the state this last year I would not trust them to not meddle with people's private accounts if they deemed it for "the greater good".
Edited by danllama on Tuesday 2nd March 07:29
I haven’t used cash for probably a couple of years and that’s not exaggerating. I’ve probably had a tenner here and there for something.
I haven’t had literally any need for it. How on earth is it selfish?
You do realise a majority of people do it every day and never get ‘hacked’?
Are you saying you don’t do online banking that’s been around for probably 20 years?
In fact it’s likely way longer than a couple of years since I used cash considering last year was covid year.
I haven’t actually taken my bank card out of a drawer for a year since I added it to my phone actually. The horror!
Edited by p1stonhead on Tuesday 2nd March 07:54
Do you go out of your way to specially use it?
I am not going to make myself go to cash points just to buy something that is much simpler without it. That’s madness.
garyhun said:
danllama said:
Apart from the odd bit of change for tips, I haven’t used cash since contactless was launched. Am I missing something?China also wants a digital currency, but do you believe that China's digital currency not seeking 'full control' of individuals' details: central bank official?
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