How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 7)
Discussion
Tuna said:
Ayahuasca said:
Not so sure the choice is between no backstop and no deal.
More likely government rebels will prevent a no deal and go for a second referendum or Labour will manage to get a vote of no-confidence passed and call a snap election.
Daniel Finkelstein in the Times had a good idea - Teresa May should do a deal with Corbyn, in which Labour promises the support needed to get her deal though parliament, in return for her calling a general election shortly after Brexit.
That all sounds very much like people trying to get to their desired outcome by any tortuous route they can imagine. Right now, I can't imagine Corbyn actually wanting a General Election - he's unlikely to win unless Brexit is a proven disaster. Doing a deal to help May actually significantly worsens his position.More likely government rebels will prevent a no deal and go for a second referendum or Labour will manage to get a vote of no-confidence passed and call a snap election.
Daniel Finkelstein in the Times had a good idea - Teresa May should do a deal with Corbyn, in which Labour promises the support needed to get her deal though parliament, in return for her calling a general election shortly after Brexit.
If only DD had been as good at Brexit negotiations as he clearly is at negotiating his rates for external advice to digger makers
https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1088129131605...
https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1088129131605...
Sway said:
Elysium said:
Sway said:
Elysium said:
No-one is negotiating with the EU at this point. We are arguing amongst ourselves.
Primarily as the EU have said they're not willing to negotiate the one aspect that would shift the HoC into a majority approval. There's not much point negotiating with someone who's said they're not willing to negotiate.
However, it is worth noting the national leaders that are calling for movement - primarily the Polish. Interesting the Irish are still fully head in the sand, relying on a false assertion of "British obligations" to remove the issue they've created.
The reality is that our Parliament refused to approve it and we now have no idea what we want.
If I was representing the EU, I would want to know what the UK was willing to agree before re-opening discussions. At this point we are just asking them to make random concessions in the hope that something they suggest works.
I appreciate that Brexiteers want the EU to be the 'bad guys', but we can't lay this as their door.
May agreed a deal and she is clinging to it like a drowning rat.
However, with Barnier's tweet, the rest of your post is shown to be false too. They clearly do know what blocked it in Parliament - it's not like the ERG/Grieve/etc. weren't very clear it was the backstop.
She is still telling parliament that they should agree it.
That is not negotiating with the EU.
It's reasonable to assume that, if the backstop can be solved, the deal might get through parliament, but the idea that the EU will unilaterally start throwing out concessions until we bite is delusional.
You can't negotiate with people that don't know what they are asking for. Right now, we are those people.
mx5nut said:
JRM wants to put parliamentary sovereignty on hold until he gets his way.
Brexiters continue to blindly defend him because he's (allegedly) on "their side".
I think you may be referring to this? Brexiters continue to blindly defend him because he's (allegedly) on "their side".
https://news.sky.com/story/government-should-shut-...
Absolutely outrageous. I cannot believe a sitting MP has openly proposed that the Queen should be asked to to close parliament to prevent it doing it's job.
JPJPJP said:
If only DD had been as good at Brexit negotiations as he clearly is at negotiating his rates for external advice to digger makers
https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1088129131605...
It's great to see Davis, Hannan and Johnson fighting for our democracy and championing the big issues that Anthony Bamford pays them to care about.https://twitter.com/pickardje/status/1088129131605...
Elysium said:
mx5nut said:
JRM wants to put parliamentary sovereignty on hold until he gets his way.
Brexiters continue to blindly defend him because he's (allegedly) on "their side".
I think you may be referring to this? Brexiters continue to blindly defend him because he's (allegedly) on "their side".
https://news.sky.com/story/government-should-shut-...
Absolutely outrageous. I cannot believe a sitting MP has openly proposed that the Queen should be asked to to close parliament to prevent it doing it's job.
Tuna said:
As opposed to Grieve's attempt to allow a minority group to override the sitting government? Which do you think is the more outrageous?
Let's call it as it is, eh? They are both just as outrageous as each other. This apparently is what we get if we take our sovereignty back, a group of people who are happy to try and amend or bypass it for their own purposes.Elysium said:
I think you may be referring to this?
https://news.sky.com/story/government-should-shut-...
Absolutely outrageous. I cannot believe a sitting MP has openly proposed that the Queen should be asked to to close parliament to prevent it doing it's job.
Those that were jumping up and down with glee when Bercow and his mates ran roughshod over parliamentary procedure now outraged over a legal parliamentary procedure. Hilarious...https://news.sky.com/story/government-should-shut-...
Absolutely outrageous. I cannot believe a sitting MP has openly proposed that the Queen should be asked to to close parliament to prevent it doing it's job.
Elysium said:
mx5nut said:
JRM wants to put parliamentary sovereignty on hold until he gets his way.
Brexiters continue to blindly defend him because he's (allegedly) on "their side".
I think you may be referring to this? Brexiters continue to blindly defend him because he's (allegedly) on "their side".
https://news.sky.com/story/government-should-shut-...
Absolutely outrageous. I cannot believe a sitting MP has openly proposed that the Queen should be asked to to close parliament to prevent it doing it's job.
mx5nut said:
Seems Brexiters are trying to outdo eachother with their brazen contempt for our country at the moment. This comes shortly after another publicly asked a foreign state to undermine parliamentary sovereignty.
It's usually a Remainer trick to ask a "respected" foreign head of state to lie to the British electorate.mattmurdock said:
Tuna said:
As opposed to Grieve's attempt to allow a minority group to override the sitting government? Which do you think is the more outrageous?
Let's call it as it is, eh? They are both just as outrageous as each other. This apparently is what we get if we take our sovereignty back, a group of people who are happy to try and amend or bypass it for their own purposes.There is a bit of a difference between trying to amend parliamentary procedure permanently by law and asking the Queen to step in and 'adjudicate' when people are over stepping the mark. The latter is pretty much the definition of sovereignty surely?
mx5nut said:
Seems Brexiters are trying to outdo eachother with their brazen contempt for our country at the moment. This comes shortly after another publicly asked a foreign state to undermine parliamentary sovereignty.
Sovereignty ... the power of a country to control its own governmentCountry, not Parliament....
No wonder you are so confused if you don't even understand what Sovereignty means...
Vanden Saab said:
Those that were jumping up and down with glee when Bercow and his mates ran roughshod over parliamentary procedure now outraged over a legal parliamentary procedure. Hilarious...
Brilliant isn't it. When Bercow and the other remainers try to block parliment and the referendum outcome they're using common sense and doing what's right. When JRM does it it's the worst thing mankind has ever done and he should be hung drawn and quartered immediately
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