The Gender Non-binary debate.
Discussion
descentia said:
I think you're stretching things a bit far here with people choosing to be gay or trans as if there's some kind of solidarity movement that's planning to take over society and those desperate to be part of something/anything have to jump on board to feel worthy. LGBT rights and equality isn't about having more than anyone else it's about having the same rights and protections.
Most of the trans people I've met knew something was up before the knew what sex and gender were so to say we are impressionable is incorrect. As for people being influenced to become gay .... I think they had that thrown in their direction back in the 80's when being gay was no longer such a social taboo that people felt safe enough to come out.
Definitely not saying that people who are genuinely transgender (or gay) were somehow pressganged into it, I’m totally on board with the idea that they have always felt that way.Most of the trans people I've met knew something was up before the knew what sex and gender were so to say we are impressionable is incorrect. As for people being influenced to become gay .... I think they had that thrown in their direction back in the 80's when being gay was no longer such a social taboo that people felt safe enough to come out.
That said I’ve known a fair few people who were ‘gay’ or ‘bi’ purely because it was fashionable.
j_4m said:
People are impressionable, they fetishise and obsess over things. I can believe there are people out there who want to be part of the social movement associated with gay and trans rights and go to any lengths to get involved. The same kind of people who engage in class tourism.
This does not in anyway delegitimise transgender people or support the idea that it is a choice, but for sure there are people out there who chose rather than were compelled by their sense of self.
I see what you’re saying but I think you’re missing that pretending to be something you’re not to fulfil a fetish or fantasy is not the same as actually experiencing it - what ever ‘it’ is. This does not in anyway delegitimise transgender people or support the idea that it is a choice, but for sure there are people out there who chose rather than were compelled by their sense of self.
Edited by j_4m on Thursday 21st February 21:55
Edit
j_4m said:
That said I’ve known a fair few people who were ‘gay’ or ‘bi’ purely because it was fashionable.
Exactly this. They weren’t gay or bi if it was purely because it was fashionable. Clockwork Cupcake said:
I think it's worth giving xjay1337 credit for the fact that he's not misgendering me, and is using female pronouns for me.
This isn't a sarky comment, btw. I mean genuine credit to him - it does show a degree of acceptance.
And this is why I still wander over to this thread. Somewhere in amongst the non-understanding and full on hate is a discussion that shows progress This isn't a sarky comment, btw. I mean genuine credit to him - it does show a degree of acceptance.
xjay1337 said:
Ferrari - a sports car
Toyota mr2 - not a sports car
Toyota mr2 with a ferrari bodykit - not a sports car, but looks like one :-)
You do realise this is an incredibly tired cliché, right? To the point that it's trotted ad nauseum every single time we have a thread like this. Almost as many times as toilets and Attack Helicopters are. Toyota mr2 - not a sports car
Toyota mr2 with a ferrari bodykit - not a sports car, but looks like one :-)
Or were you being "ironic" by mentioning it?
Mark-C said:
And this is why I still wander over to this thread. Somewhere in amongst the non-understanding and full on hate is a discussion that shows progress
Do people actually use pronouns like ze, zhe and zher? Because while I will happily refer to a person by their preferred pronoun for male and female im not keen on the idea of made up s
t like that. That really does smack as "I want to be ultra different". Also people that prefer to be called they? Then theres gender fluid... that seems to have serious complications with things like say going to prison. Not sure how much of the "Progressive movement" is for the genuine good of trans and how much is to push a political point.
I know that any analogy, simile, or metaphor is doomed to failure on this thread, but I was just browsing the BBC News website and noticed that the General Synod of the Church of England has just voted that churches no longer have to have a Sunday service.
Obviously, that's what the headlines say, and what raises eyebrows, and will get people hot under the collar. A church without a Sunday service? How utterly ridiculous! What next, priests working in gay bars on a Sunday morning instead? Think of the children, etc.
Only, it isn't. Continue to read and you get to this paragraph:
So, it has been going on anyway. It already happens, it's already a thing. It's just that some of the red tape surrounding it is being relaxed.
It seems to me that this is in some way analogous to the whole hoo-ha of relaxing the rules on getting a Gender Recognition Certificate.
Obviously, that's what the headlines say, and what raises eyebrows, and will get people hot under the collar. A church without a Sunday service? How utterly ridiculous! What next, priests working in gay bars on a Sunday morning instead? Think of the children, etc.
Only, it isn't. Continue to read and you get to this paragraph:
article said:
The General Synod voted to end the law - dating back to 1603 - which required priests to hold a Sunday service in every church they looked after.
[...]
Decades of falling church attendances has left some priests looking after up to 20 rural churches.
Previously, a rural priest would need to apply for permission from a bishop to not hold a Sunday service in each church.
The Bishop of Willesden - the Right Reverend Pete Broadbent - chairs the Simplification Task Force formed in 2014 to improve the process of the Church of England.
He said changing the law reflected the current practice of priests who look after multiple churches.
Following the vote, he said: "You're meant to get a dispensation from the bishop - this just changes the rules to make it easier for people to do what they're already doing. It stops the bureaucracy."
He added: "This was just one (amendment) where we said, 'out of date, doesn't work, we're operating differently in the countryside now, therefore lets find a way of making it work'."
source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47326993[...]
Decades of falling church attendances has left some priests looking after up to 20 rural churches.
Previously, a rural priest would need to apply for permission from a bishop to not hold a Sunday service in each church.
The Bishop of Willesden - the Right Reverend Pete Broadbent - chairs the Simplification Task Force formed in 2014 to improve the process of the Church of England.
He said changing the law reflected the current practice of priests who look after multiple churches.
Following the vote, he said: "You're meant to get a dispensation from the bishop - this just changes the rules to make it easier for people to do what they're already doing. It stops the bureaucracy."
He added: "This was just one (amendment) where we said, 'out of date, doesn't work, we're operating differently in the countryside now, therefore lets find a way of making it work'."
So, it has been going on anyway. It already happens, it's already a thing. It's just that some of the red tape surrounding it is being relaxed.
It seems to me that this is in some way analogous to the whole hoo-ha of relaxing the rules on getting a Gender Recognition Certificate.
Edited by Clockwork Cupcake on Friday 22 February 09:17
Michaelbailey said:
Do people actually use pronouns like ze, zhe and zher? Because while I will happily refer to a person by their preferred pronoun for male and female im not keen on the idea of made up st like that. That really does smack as "I want to be ultra different". Also people that prefer to be called they?
I only encounter those pronouns with a small % of US students, to be honest I find it easier than using some of their names. t like that. That really does smack as "I want to be ultra different". Also people that prefer to be called they? From what I have seen there is a big element of Look at me, I am special, I am different, please notice me, but I see that across the board with young adults trying to find their way in life.
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