UKIP - The Future - Volume 3
Discussion
jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27459923
He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I still can't see a reference to "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door" in that. Do try again.He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I don't want a group of Romanian men living next door, probably because the representation of such a group on the Benefits Street TV show was more like the reality for many who do have this in there street. Would be great it they were a bunch of Romanian bankers flat sharing and while that is a possibility, you can't fool people as to what the reality is for many.
For those sharing the Fred Cloggs brain cell, that means straight to racist. For me it means failures of immigration and no benefit to anyone.
FredClogs said:
jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27459923
He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I still can't see a reference to "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door" in that. Do try again.He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
Mr_B said:
jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27459923
He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I still can't see a reference to "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door" in that. Do try again.He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I don't want a group of Romanian men living next door, probably because the representation of such a group on the Benefits Street TV show was more like the reality for many who do have this in there street. Would be great it they were a bunch of Romanian bankers flat sharing and while that is a possibility, you can't fool people as to what the reality is for many.
For those sharing the Fred Cloggs brain cell, that means straight to racist. For me it means failures of immigration and no benefit to anyone.
Please expand.
FredClogs said:
It's clear what he said and what he meant I don't know quite what you're on about, please expand or stop, your jazz is of poor quality.
It is indeed clear what he said. What you quoted him as saying isn't that. So once again, where's your source for the quote "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door". I'm here all day, so take your time.jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
It's clear what he said and what he meant I don't know quite what you're on about, please expand or stop, your jazz is of poor quality.
It is indeed clear what he said. What you quoted him as saying isn't that. So once again, where's your source for the quote "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door". I'm here all day, so take your time.Scuffers said:
no, he's not, you are.
the quote you have above is not accurate, quite simply, it's deliberately edited for effect.
the actual quote was:
so, remind me who the mental case is again?
I quite agree that the flinging around of ad hominem insults is not in anyone's interests, but surely you can see that the direct intent of Farage's statement is to communicate the idea that he feels it would be concerning for anyone if a group of Romanians moved in next door. I can only assume that NF doesn't exclude himself from membership of the set 'Anyone' and it is therefore valid to draw the conclusion that he wouldn't like it if Romanians moved in next door to him.the quote you have above is not accurate, quite simply, it's deliberately edited for effect.
the actual quote was:
Farage on LBC said:
"You know what the difference is," Mr Farage replied.
He added: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be."
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27459923He added: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be."
so, remind me who the mental case is again?
Insults are petty and unhelpful, but so is this obsessive picking over exact words and phraseology, we don't all have Asberger's syndrome. It is neurotypical behaviour to be capable of understanding intent, meaning and implication from the statements people make. The difficulty that UKIP seem to have is that underlying some of their supporter's statements are some pretty unsavoury messages.
FredClogs said:
jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
It's clear what he said and what he meant I don't know quite what you're on about, please expand or stop, your jazz is of poor quality.
It is indeed clear what he said. What you quoted him as saying isn't that. So once again, where's your source for the quote "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door". I'm here all day, so take your time.FredClogs said:
jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
It's clear what he said and what he meant I don't know quite what you're on about, please expand or stop, your jazz is of poor quality.
It is indeed clear what he said. What you quoted him as saying isn't that. So once again, where's your source for the quote "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door". I'm here all day, so take your time.jagnet said:
It is indeed clear what he said. What you quoted him as saying isn't that. So once again, where's your source for the quote "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door". I'm here all day, so take your time.
Are you maybe being a tad disingenuous? If I were to claim Farage most probably wouldn't mind a family of Romanians moving in next door, do you think I'd have judged his position well?If you rely only on literal words in a sentence for its meaning, you're going to be upset when cats and dogs really aren't falling from the sky and all that is happening is you're getting wet!
Gaspode said:
I quite agree that the flinging around of ad hominem insults is not in anyone's interests, but surely you can see that the direct intent of Farage's statement is to communicate the idea that he feels it would be concerning for anyone if a group of Romanians moved in next door. I can only assume that NF doesn't exclude himself from membership of the set 'Anyone' and it is therefore valid to draw the conclusion that he wouldn't like it if Romanians moved in next door to him.
Insults are petty and unhelpful, but so is this obsessive picking over exact words and phraseology, we don't all have Asberger's syndrome. It is neurotypical behaviour to be capable of understanding intent, meaning and implication from the statements people make. The difficulty that UKIP seem to have is that underlying some of their supporter's statements are some pretty unsavoury messages.
no, quite simply.Insults are petty and unhelpful, but so is this obsessive picking over exact words and phraseology, we don't all have Asberger's syndrome. It is neurotypical behaviour to be capable of understanding intent, meaning and implication from the statements people make. The difficulty that UKIP seem to have is that underlying some of their supporter's statements are some pretty unsavoury messages.
he was asked a direct question, not about a romanian family, but romanian men, the implication being a gang, not a family.
to be honest, if a gang of men moved in next door of any nationality I would be concerned, as I am sure most people would.
this whole bulls
t was a setup in the original question, if you can't see that, then I would give up on trying to understand politics.FredClogs said:
Mr_B said:
jagnet said:
FredClogs said:
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-27459923
He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I still can't see a reference to "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door" in that. Do try again.He was speaking on your behalf, he suggested you would be worried if they moved in next door, he himself is above that sort of thing because he's minted, but the little people like you are going to worry about Romanians next door... That's the sort of guy Farage is, concerned for you...
Like I said, it's Jazz man.
I don't want a group of Romanian men living next door, probably because the representation of such a group on the Benefits Street TV show was more like the reality for many who do have this in there street. Would be great it they were a bunch of Romanian bankers flat sharing and while that is a possibility, you can't fool people as to what the reality is for many.
For those sharing the Fred Cloggs brain cell, that means straight to racist. For me it means failures of immigration and no benefit to anyone.
Please expand.
Sorry reality hurts your wannabe ideal world, but this is peoples experience when it comes to the extreme ends of immigration such as allowing unfettered access to one of the poorest and corrupt countries in Europe.
The scene in that Benefits Street show is not one I delight in, I actually felt sorry for them in a way, they were ripped off and under paid for the work they were doing and living in a s
t hole with a slum landlord. The other point is how you took what someone said, eliminated the bits you thought made it sound less nasty in your mind and insert your own and put it out there as something else, all while you shamelessly self promote yourself as some kinda great moral PH angel.
Clear enough ?
allergictocheese said:
jagnet said:
It is indeed clear what he said. What you quoted him as saying isn't that. So once again, where's your source for the quote "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door". I'm here all day, so take your time.
Are you maybe being a tad disingenuous? If I were to claim Farage most probably wouldn't mind a family of Romanians moving in next door, do you think I'd have judged his position well?If you rely only on literal words in a sentence for its meaning, you're going to be upset when cats and dogs really aren't falling from the sky and all that is happening is you're getting wet!
I said this said:
Farage himself said he "wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door" - let's not pretend like we're all Larry logic and unable to decipher meaning from a sentence rather than just a stream of words and grammar. The "there is no such place as bongo bongo land ergo it can't be a racist slur" defense is patently ridiculous. UKIP (and to be fair all the other parties) are becoming Jazz politicians - it's not the things that they are saying that are important, it's the things they're not saying that you need to listen for.
I think the point has been made and subsequent replies have proven it's accuracy.He said what he said and what he said was "YOU wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door"
(I've added the YOU, do forgive me)
Edited by FredClogs on Wednesday 17th December 13:36
Scuffers said:
e21Mark said:
I'm not really too up on politics but I do feel for that poor Mr Farage fella. Evidently he can barely afford his mortgage and doesn't own an expensive car. (I imagine that chauffeur driven Range Rover was someone else's?)
that would be funny, but you can't even tell the difference between an range rover and a discovery! (and this is a car forum)so, you think he should have driven himself around (especially when he had been drinking)?
and of course, we (the TAXpayer) don't foot the bill for Cameron/Clegg et all to be driven round in chauffeur driven cars?
Out of interest, I wonder what milage Nigel clocks up these days? he seems to be everywhere, when does he get the time to sleep?
I bet if you divide his MEP pay by the hours he puts in, the figure would be scary...
Just another misleading quote though. No he doesn't 'own' an expensive car, he just fails to say he has the use of one and a driver.
Divide his salary by hours worked and he'd still be way better off than most. Of course he has the luxury of second income in his household, thanks to his party paying to employ his wife.
Just goes to prove that he's no different to all the other self serving politicians we have here in the UK. It's just this one is a bit more openly bigoted.
FredClogs said:
I think the point has been made and subsequent replies have proven it's accuracy.
He said what he said and what he said was "YOU wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door"
(I've added the YOU, do forgive me)
Oh dear god He said what he said and what he said was "YOU wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door"
(I've added the YOU, do forgive me)
No he didn't say that, and if you're convinced that he did then provide a source.
FredClogs said:
what he said was "YOU wouldn't want a family of Romanians living next door"
Farage on LBC said:
"You know what the difference is," Mr Farage replied.
He added: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be."
Others can make up their own minds. You well know that I think you're an imbecilic bell end.He added: "I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be."
Scuffers said:
no, quite simply.
he was asked a direct question, not about a romanian family, but romanian men, the implication being a gang, not a family.
to be honest, if a gang of men moved in next door of any nationality I would be concerned, as I am sure most people would.
this whole bullst was a setup in the original question, if you can't see that, then I would give up on trying to understand politics.
If you listen to the interview, he is actually asked about something he said previously about Romanians, and asked why it is different to a group of German children moving in next door. he was asked a direct question, not about a romanian family, but romanian men, the implication being a gang, not a family.
to be honest, if a gang of men moved in next door of any nationality I would be concerned, as I am sure most people would.
this whole bulls
t was a setup in the original question, if you can't see that, then I would give up on trying to understand politics.By way of explanation he says that the two things are very different. He tells the interviewer that having been to Romania and seen Roma families who live in poverty, they fall in many cases into a life of crime. So Romanians are basically assumed to be criminals. And he says that open door immigration is an invitation to "traffickers". So he infers that a group of Romanians moving into a house in London is likely to be a group of people traffickers.
One wonders what collective nouns for other ethnic groups rattle around in that head of his.
There's no set up. He's simply unable to talk his way out of his original comment.
brenflys777 said:
I'm not a member of UKIP. I might consider joining. I will probably vote for them again though so consider myself a supporter. I 'still haven't answered because I didn't notice anyone asking'.
You're coment about UKIP giving a message of curing gays was an absolute lie!
The poster you seem desperate to get upset about is no worse in my opinion than 'British jobs for British workers'!
I don't know about a membership vote on it bar reference to it in that Guardian article, was it a membership vote, or an NEC vote or another exaggeration!
Ok, note to self, know your audience and type slower. You're coment about UKIP giving a message of curing gays was an absolute lie!
The poster you seem desperate to get upset about is no worse in my opinion than 'British jobs for British workers'!
I don't know about a membership vote on it bar reference to it in that Guardian article, was it a membership vote, or an NEC vote or another exaggeration!
I didn't ask if you are a member or supporter of UKIP. I asked if you are a member of the 'People's Army'. If yes, what is your rank.
The message about curing gays came from Helmer, but you knew that. He is the one that I was referring to. But you knew that too. Your royal Nigeness seems to think, again according to the article, as I wasn't there, that 'most over 70s are uncomfortable with gays'. I don't think that I know a single person over (or under) 70 who is 'uncomfortable with gays'.
http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/06/01/ukip-mep-roge...
As for the poster. You made it up that the poster was simply pointing that 26mil can come to UK looking for work. Even if you ignore the fact that over 2mil of those are already in UK, so they can't come again, your statement is obviously not representation of what the poster actually says.
My life and the lives of my immediate family, which are the only things that really matter to me, wouldn't change with UK in or out of EU. So, ever so slowly, just for you, the poster above is laughable, not upsetting. Yes?
Tim Congdon said:
"In 2011 Ukip held a big internal debate on the issue. The party membership voted two to one against Ukip's affiliation to a PEPP.
That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. I am much saddened that the leadership should now have decided to ignore and overrule the clearly expressed view of the party membership.
That was the clear and unambiguous democratic verdict of the party membership after a big debate extending over several months. I am much saddened that the leadership should now have decided to ignore and overrule the clearly expressed view of the party membership.
e21Mark said:
Scuffers said:
e21Mark said:
I'm not really too up on politics but I do feel for that poor Mr Farage fella. Evidently he can barely afford his mortgage and doesn't own an expensive car. (I imagine that chauffeur driven Range Rover was someone else's?)
that would be funny, but you can't even tell the difference between an range rover and a discovery! (and this is a car forum)so, you think he should have driven himself around (especially when he had been drinking)?
and of course, we (the TAXpayer) don't foot the bill for Cameron/Clegg et all to be driven round in chauffeur driven cars?
Out of interest, I wonder what milage Nigel clocks up these days? he seems to be everywhere, when does he get the time to sleep?
I bet if you divide his MEP pay by the hours he puts in, the figure would be scary...
Just another misleading quote though. No he doesn't 'own' an expensive car, he just fails to say he has the use of one and a driver.
Divide his salary by hours worked and he'd still be way better off than most. Of course he has the luxury of second income in his household, thanks to his party paying to employ his wife.
Just goes to prove that he's no different to all the other self serving politicians we have here in the UK. It's just this one is a bit more openly bigoted.
what's misleading about it? it's been well publicised about UKIP providing him with a chauffeur driven car?
christ, the man must have covered 150K+ miles this year alone, and you begrudge him being chauffeured about?
seems to be the only bigot here is the one in the mirror....
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