RMT union vote for a national rail strike
Discussion
Vasco said:
Ashfordian said:
I can't recall all the offers but the ones I can remember are:
4%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes
5%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes (DOO added to almost intentionally scupper the deal)
5%+4% with fewer Terms and Condition changes
To the current accepted offer of 5% for 2022(or £1750) backdated and no T&C changes. The 2023 pay negotiations will start next year so you can expect further strikes when these quickly hit a stalemate.
Probably - but at some point there are T&C changes needed if we are to have an efficient and cost effective train system. Hopefully, the 2 main unions will see that there can be benefits in working closer with management rather than fighting for every possible morsel.4%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes
5%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes (DOO added to almost intentionally scupper the deal)
5%+4% with fewer Terms and Condition changes
To the current accepted offer of 5% for 2022(or £1750) backdated and no T&C changes. The 2023 pay negotiations will start next year so you can expect further strikes when these quickly hit a stalemate.
5% is below inflation.
No changes to Ts & Cs now does not mean no changes ever, they've just kicked that can down the road.
So I don't think Mr Lynch can claim that as being a "victory" either & I'm quite surprised they've accepted it.
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
Wombat3 said:
Vasco said:
Ashfordian said:
I can't recall all the offers but the ones I can remember are:
4%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes
5%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes (DOO added to almost intentionally scupper the deal)
5%+4% with fewer Terms and Condition changes
To the current accepted offer of 5% for 2022(or £1750) backdated and no T&C changes. The 2023 pay negotiations will start next year so you can expect further strikes when these quickly hit a stalemate.
Probably - but at some point there are T&C changes needed if we are to have an efficient and cost effective train system. Hopefully, the 2 main unions will see that there can be benefits in working closer with management rather than fighting for every possible morsel.4%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes
5%+4% with lots of Terms and Conditions changes (DOO added to almost intentionally scupper the deal)
5%+4% with fewer Terms and Condition changes
To the current accepted offer of 5% for 2022(or £1750) backdated and no T&C changes. The 2023 pay negotiations will start next year so you can expect further strikes when these quickly hit a stalemate.
5% is below inflation.
No changes to Ts & Cs now does not mean no changes ever, they've just kicked that can down the road.
So I don't think Mr Lynch can claim that as being a "victory" either & I'm quite surprised they've accepted it.
oyster said:
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
S600BSB said:
oyster said:
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
oyster said:
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
Wombat3 said:
The original decision to close the ticket offices came from the Rail Delivery Group, not the Government AIUI.
For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
The RDG is basically the Government. Fingers in many pies and I'm sure the Government will claim they have no sway over what the RDG do, just like when it came to pay talks.For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
S600BSB said:
Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
oyster said:
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
The Rail Delivery Group is not the Government......unless you know different?
Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
oyster said:
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
The Rail Delivery Group is not the Government......unless you know different?
S600BSB said:
Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
Wombat3 said:
S600BSB said:
oyster said:
S600BSB said:
Looks like a decent settlement. As a regular rail user I am also glad that the government has u-turned (again) on station closures.
Station closures or ticket office closures?I haven't used a ticket office in 10+ years. Do people really still use them? (even my octogenarian mother uses etickets and has done for a while).
For sure the Government asked them to reverse it but I don't think the original decision came from the DoT
If so, then not a "Government U-Turn" is it ?
The Rail Delivery Group is not the Government......unless you know different?
"Dear oh dear" doesn't alter the construct of the RDG either (which does not include the DoT)
See https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/
Wombat3 said:
That "government U-turn" crap just suits your usual narrative / bias.
"Dear oh dear" doesn't alter the construct of the RDG either (which does not include the DoT)
See https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/
After many years of a failed privatised passenger railway, most of the big players at now in control of the operator of last resort - the government."Dear oh dear" doesn't alter the construct of the RDG either (which does not include the DoT)
See https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/
The RDG is run by and for its members - those members are the TOCs.
You can be lead to the river but you can’t be forced to drink.
Legacywr said:
legzr1 said:
The last couple of pages in this thread are hilarious
Congrats to the many thousands who have stuck together and fought for what they believe was right.
Where’s the victory here? Congrats to the many thousands who have stuck together and fought for what they believe was right.
Legacywr said:
Where’s the victory here?
Maybe a question better asked of RMT members but for me, a semi-interested outsider, RMT members have gone from facing compulsory redundancies, huge changes in T&Cs for those working ‘on the line’ and a refusal to negotiate or any offers of a pay rise until all terms accepted to what we have now - 5% backdated, no ticket office closures, a relaxing of the threat of swathing cuts to on-the-line workers and, with a bit of luck, a return to normality for paying customers (as far as is possible with the railways…).All it’s taken is a few different PMs, a couple of transport ministers and a large social media campaign to keep offices open.
It’s been fun to watch yet another Tory government rip itself to pieces whist union members with strong leadership have stuck together.
Some, including yourself perhaps, will hate this.
Nevermind.
Well played RMT.
Well played Mick Lynch.
No U turn. No victory. Nothing to see here…
Vasco said:
Legacywr said:
legzr1 said:
The last couple of pages in this thread are hilarious
Congrats to the many thousands who have stuck together and fought for what they believe was right.
Where’s the victory here? Congrats to the many thousands who have stuck together and fought for what they believe was right.
Have YOU won anything yet?
Even a badge of some description?
Vasco said:
Didn't they have a free vote - without any recommendation from Lynch. That tells you something!
All votes are free. Always have been and always will be.Recommendations aren’t some kind of three line party whip - you do know that don’t you?
Wombat3 said:
That "government U-turn" crap just suits your usual narrative / bias.
"Dear oh dear" doesn't alter the construct of the RDG either (which does not include the DoT)
See https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/
Haha - if you say so!"Dear oh dear" doesn't alter the construct of the RDG either (which does not include the DoT)
See https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/
It’s Friday night and I’ve got better things to do than argue with you. You enjoy your keyboard old thing.
legzr1 said:
Legacywr said:
Where’s the victory here?
Maybe a question better asked of RMT members but for me, a semi-interested outsider, RMT members have gone from facing compulsory redundancies, huge changes in T&Cs for those working ‘on the line’ and a refusal to negotiate or any offers of a pay rise until all terms accepted to what we have now - 5% backdated, no ticket office closures, a relaxing of the threat of swathing cuts to on-the-line workers and, with a bit of luck, a return to normality for paying customers (as far as is possible with the railways…).All it’s taken is a few different PMs, a couple of transport ministers and a large social media campaign to keep offices open.
It’s been fun to watch yet another Tory government rip itself to pieces whist union members with strong leadership have stuck together.
Some, including yourself perhaps, will hate this.
Nevermind.
Well played RMT.
Well played Mick Lynch.
No U turn. No victory. Nothing to see here…
In all honesty, I guess that many people will (rightly) judge the government's actions to be less than ideal - too many involved, too little forethought, too keen to break the mould etc.
So, the RMT has got a small pay increase (much smaller than most had expected) and the T+C changes have been separated out. Good, probably the only sensible way forward at present. Looks like we'll be back here on many similar issues in a few months.
.
Pupp said:
Sat on a train as I type this; our Le Mans group could only choose the weekend of the ASLEF Christmas party for its winter reunion.
Very noticeable from hanging around KX waiting for a non cancelled train this morning that the unions do command a fair amount of support. Surprised me
I think the rail unions’ cause has been bolstered significantly this time by the widespread strike action from various other, unrelated workforces over the same period. The usual “greedy railway workers” line is a lot less powerful when you’ve also got teachers, nurses & various other assorted NHS people, driving examiners etc etc all going out as well. The teachers in particular have also arguably outstripped rail in the ‘directly inconveniencing the public’ stakes; which obviously is the whole point and entirely necessary; again that will have dampened the usual anger and disdain aimed at the rail strikes. You also had the government hiding behind the Rail Delivery Group and telling blatant lies about how it all had nothing to do with them, and constantly being very publically outed by Mick Lynch for doing so. Finally, the government cocked up big time with the ticket offices, wholesale closures en masse was straight out of the “Tories of 1980s” playbook and did them no favours at all; utterly stupid idea.Very noticeable from hanging around KX waiting for a non cancelled train this morning that the unions do command a fair amount of support. Surprised me
So on balance, I think it makes sense that there has been far more support this time around. Of course, when it happens all over again next year, it might be a different story!
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