CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

[Twinfan]

Sensei Rob said:

Yeah, there are thousands that keep the wheels turning. They're at risk, sure. The difference is, you don't get people walking about or gathering like you do today, and you wouldn't get stuff like people getting on planes and going on holidays.

OK, so that reduces transmission. I'm OK with that logic.

You said your plan would eradicate it in 8 weeks. With all the transmission across the thousands and thousands of support workers how exactly will it die out? And what happens when you open up again and someone brings it into the country?

This is the issue NZ are going to face.

[RKi]

Sensei Rob said:

No, it's not a stupid idea.

It's nuanced, and I didn't feel like writing an essay. No matter, It can work:

Key workers (food production and distribution, medical staff, etc.) continue working with PPE. Police as well as the Army can patrol the streets to make sure civilians stay at home.

All shopping done online, so some staff will still need to enable that.

The banks put a hold on mortgages and loans for 8 weeks.

Yeah, there are drawbacks, of course. The alternative is what's happening right now, where people take half measures, fumble around and eff things up as normal.

Now ask yourself - would you have gone through 8 weeks of the above or do you think what we did was the better alternative?

[Sensei Rob]

Carrot said:

Sensei Rob said:

Covid cases should be treated at home, not in a hospital.

For those extremely rare cases that require ventilator support - how does that work?

Simple. They either recover or they die. What they won't do is spread the virus to other people.

Suppose it was an extremely virulent version of ebola, rather than corona, how would you treat the infected?

[ben5575]

Carrot said:

Sensei Rob said:

Covid cases should be treated at home, not in a hospital.

For those extremely rare cases that require ventilator support - how does that work?

And treated at home by whom? And with what and where did it come from during those 6 weeks?

And the food we're all eating is produced and delivered by? What about the water, gas and power for people's houses etc etc....?

I can begin to see a flaw in this argument

[Carrot]

Sensei Rob said:

Carrot said:

Sensei Rob said:

Covid cases should be treated at home, not in a hospital.

For those extremely rare cases that require ventilator support - how does that work?

Simple. They either recover or they die. What they won't do is spread the virus to other people.

Suppose it was an extremely virulent version of ebola, rather than corona, how would you treat the infected?

Oh boy... I am out. There is less chance of dying of the virus than lettings potentially millions of people die in their home of starvation etc...

Nuanced indeed...

[Sensei Rob]

monkfish1 said:

Awesome. So now the nurses are going to go from infected household to infected household. Brilliant. i can see this plan working. Not.

Utterly mad. Im out.

Yeah well, right now the UK are looking like the 5th dumbest nation on Earth. Perhaps we should take notes from the Tajikistanis!

[monkfish1]

MikeT66 said:

garyhun said:

MikeT66 said:

I can't tell you how much I hope and pray you are right. However wrong I am reading this situation, and admitting as such online that I was wrong and fooled (as I will do if true) it would be nothing compared to the shame and despair of being right.

Probably a lot of us willing to eat humble pie as long as we return to pre-2020 normal.

I'd have one caveat on that apology, Gary - that we do not return to this inhuman and anti-democratic madness again in September. Even if everything turns out OK, I think this is the closest we've come to effectively losing our democracy and way of life, and we must make procedural steps to ensure it does not happen again.

As far as im concerned, its not over until the emergency legislation is removed. Until that happens, they have the power to re-impose any restrictions they like, even if they have temporarily removed them.

Much as ill be accused of tin foil, id say its an odds on certainty, that whatever happens this summer, we will be back here again by December. They have ptetty much told us that already, and there is a whole heap of vested interests and out of control egos who will make sure it happens.

Bringing the legislation to a close is the ONLY way to ensure to stops.

Im confident in saying, the emergency legislation will still be in place this time next year.

[Carrot]

monkfish1 said:

As far as im concerned, its not over until the emergency legislation is removed. Until that happens, they have the power to re-impose any restrictions they like, even if they have temporarily removed them.

Much as ill be accused of tin foil, id say its an odds on certainty, that whatever happens this summer, we will be back here again by December. They have ptetty much told us that already, and there is a whole heap of vested interests and out of control egos who will make sure it happens.

Bringing the legislation to a close is the ONLY way to ensure to stops.

Im confident in saying, the emergency legislation will still be in place this time next year.

I very much hope you are wrong, but since Tracey and Karen from Facebook apparently govern the policy, we are screwed.

[Uggers]

I'm glad Sensei-rob has posted this. It's refreshing that he has fleshed out his reasons rather than just been a contrarian like a few others, so give him credit for that.

It is a mindset unfortunately that seems to be prevailing though? Maybe not the general population, but definitly the direction of travel of Sage, media and the government response to them?

How that attitude changes I don't know, maybe when the money taps are switched off? We have just cracked 100% debt to Gdp, Italy are at 160%debt to Gdp and they're fine, so plenty more money to come

[isaldiri]

bodhi said:

On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.

With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.

The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.

Pretty much this. Have to admit I'm rather glad you posted this as I was started to think I was a little crazed for seemingly being the only one a little unconvinced about the irrevocable path to eternal worship of Schwab or something.......

[Twinfan]

isaldiri said:

bodhi said:

On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.

With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.

The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.

Pretty much this. Have to admit I'm rather glad you posted this as I was started to think I was a little crazed for seemingly being the only one a little unconvinced about the irrevocable path to eternal worship of Schwab or something.......

I'm with you guys on this too. I'm just frustrated that the speed of unlocking is so slow, but I can't see it lasting forever. It's just not sustainable.

[richardxjr]

This furlough extension and then tapering away until Autumn (you know, the season before winter)....

I get this feeling of de ja vu.

NO WAY is any this bks going anywhere until at least this time next year.

And then what? Change course suddenly to what should have been done last spring, or what should be done now, this spring?


What a fking mess.

[rover 623gsi]

Mildly amusing

https://onewayroadtobeer.com/

[JuanCarlosFandango]

Maybe we could just tell the lockdown enthusiasts that we're all taking it really seriously? They'll be at home with the blankets drawn up to their masks watching the BBC anyway so they won't notice that the rest of us are taking no notice.

[Elysium]

steveT350C said:

Lots of discussions about masks again I see.

This may help....

So, what are the benefits to getting primary schoolchildren to wear masks?For one, whatever little degree of transmission is occurring in these age groups could be limited. It could also help normalise the practice – young children wearing masks may make their families more likely to accept masks, said Susan Michie
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/02/...

Susan Michie, for those who don’t know, is one of Sage’s behavioural psychologists, and a communist.

So the main benefit of mask wearing is the normalisation of mask wearing?

[Boringvolvodriver]

isaldiri said:

bodhi said:

On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.

With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.

The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.

Pretty much this. Have to admit I'm rather glad you posted this as I was started to think I was a little crazed for seemingly being the only one a little unconvinced about the irrevocable path to eternal worship of Schwab or something.......

Another one who can go along with this.

That is the thing with all that goes on, you do start to question your own thinking and trying to make sense of it all. I try to apply some logical thought (emphasis on try) to it all and end up tying myself in knots!

[Harrison Bergeron]

Sensei Rob said:

Yeah, there are thousands that keep the wheels turning. They're at risk, sure. The difference is, you don't get people walking about or gathering like you do today, and you wouldn't get stuff like people getting on planes and going on holidays.

You are so dense that light bends around you.

Crippo said:

I’m the complete opposite. I think it would have been better to have ignored COVID completely. 1 % of the Global population would have died of some COVID related illness and the disease would quickly have reached an equilibrium. We would have some herd type immunity with it and vaccine development could have carried on just as it has anyway. I think people rights and freedoms are far more important than stopping them from dieing from one particular disease. I think this has been an experiment of Communist revolutionary proportions not within our political or economic lives but of our ACTUAL Lives.

For less than 400 billion we could have isolated the vulnerable and the rest of us got on with life.

[danllama]

Crippo said:

I’m the complete opposite. I think it would have been better to have ignored COVID completely. 1 % of the Global population would have died of some COVID related illness and the disease would quickly have reached an equilibrium. We would have some herd type immunity with it and vaccine development could have carried on just as it has anyway. I think people rights and freedoms are far more important than stopping them from dieing from one particular disease. I think this has been an experiment of Communist revolutionary proportions not within our political or economic lives but of our ACTUAL Lives.

+1.

[ant1973]

isaldiri said:

bodhi said:

On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.

With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.

The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.

Pretty much this. Have to admit I'm rather glad you posted this as I was started to think I was a little crazed for seemingly being the only one a little unconvinced about the irrevocable path to eternal worship of Schwab or something.......

I think last week's SAGE dump (I use the phrase advisedly) explains the furlough move.

SAGE's latest modelling is to the effect that a 9-month window for lifting restrictions is required to avoid a resurgence of cases. Critically this also assumes that some NPI's are retained (sufficient to reduce transmission by 25%). It is not clear when these measures are to be lifted. "Never" would appear to be the import of the SAGE advice. The proposed interventions that are to be retained are trivial: "avoid overcrowding" being one example.....

These people are nuts.

For a little over two weeks I have been doing as I please in my professional and personal life. I feel all the better for it. To some extent, you can only imprison yourself over this nonsense.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-publ...

[NerveAgent]

I think Sensei-robs viewpoint is sadly pretty representative of the general population.

“Everyone just needs to stay at home!” Then once probed a little further they roll out a load of caveats which basically describe pretty much exactly what is actually happening.