Aggression by Russia/uk?

[anonymous-user]

I notice the Russians appear to design and build all their aircraft (and most of their other materiel) in-house/in-nation. We only seem to do this for a handful of helicopters. Seems to be a bit of a capability gap?

Edit: and I may even be wrong about the helicopters, seems the ones I was thinking of are actually Italian

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 30th June 14:20

[Byker28i]

Red 4 said:

Byker28i said:

but tell us more about the F-35...

It's summed up very easily. A hugely expensive Jack of All Trades Master of None.

The B is the worst of the bunch. HTH.

So you didn't bother to read what I wrote... and exposes your ignorance of the platform and how it meets it's requirements.

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 30th June 14:22

[Byker28i]

MrMan001 said:

I notice the Russians appear to design and build all their aircraft (and most of their other materiel) in-house/in-nation. We only seem to do this for a handful of helicopters. Seems to be a bit of a capability gap?

Cost, scale, size, complexity of development with modern aircraft, which is why we bought american, why other aircraft have been a joint enterprise etc

[anonymous-user]

Byker28i said:

Cost, scale, size, complexity of development with modern aircraft, which is why we bought american, why other aircraft have been a joint enterprise etc

It seems a bit odd as the UK used to be able to design and build these things in-house, and the Russians manage it despite having an economy half the size of the UK.

[Byker28i]

Rogue86 said:

Byker28i said:

Mine would all be old ones, or ones I can't post. I just get to watch these days

"As I was saying to Red4 just yesterday, the F-35B just isn't as good as..."

That's such a great selfie!

Not as good as this one someone took - this is brilliant

[Evanivitch]

Red 4 said:

Evanivitch said:

Red 4 said:

Unlike you ? The expert on the MiG 28 ...

Have I made comments on the MiG28?

There's no such plane. It was made up for Top Gun (of which you appear to be a big fan).
I'm surprised you didn't know that, given your encyclopedic knowledge

And yet I've never claimed an encyclopedic knowledge either.

You seem to have a habit of making stuff up

[Biggy Stardust]

Red 4 said:

It's summed up very easily. A hugely expensive Jack of All Trades Master of None.

The B is the worst of the bunch. HTH.

Please confirm your credentials to make this assessment.

[TTmonkey]

Red 4 said:

768 said:

Red 4 said:

Here's a thought, rather than attacking me/ my family why don't you counter the points I have made concerning the F-35 ?

Probably because you brought them into this as an argument of the appeal to authority type.

I found it amusing. Having lived next door to an RAF fighter pilot. The houses on both sides. And opposite. And their neighbours too.

Likewise your comments concerning pilots and neighbours. They are a figment of your imagination. When you've managed to return to Planet Earth, give me a shout. Until then its probably best (for you) to say nothing.

OMQ patch stuffed with Wuperts and Fionas would be my guess…..

[Red 4]

Byker28i said:

So you didn't bother to read what I wrote... and exposes your ignorance of the platform and how it meets it's requirements.

Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 30th June 14:22

Yes. It's so good that nations are rowing back/ cancelling their orders.

Even the US admit that overall it is a failure. The UK are a bit wishy washy about how many planes we'll eventually buy because it's problem after problem after problem ...
The problems of range (specifically F-35B) and the lack supercruise ability have still not been addressed.
Is the paint still falling off when it goes supersonic (so they don't bother) ?
You say the aircraft meets its requirements. I suggest those requirements have been scaled back.
On another note, why are we getting F-35B for the Royal Air Force ? Why not F-35A ?

[768]

MrMan001 said:

It seems a bit odd as the UK used to be able to design and build these things in-house, and the Russians manage it despite having an economy half the size of the UK.

The Russians go it alone because they don't have allies that fall into the middle of the Venn diagram for trust, expertise and cash. It costs them a larger share of their GDP for an inferior result.

[Red 4]

Biggy Stardust said:

Red 4 said:

It's summed up very easily. A hugely expensive Jack of All Trades Master of None.

The B is the worst of the bunch. HTH.

Please confirm your credentials to make this assessment.

It's the assessment of many experts in the field. Confirm yours.

[anonymous-user]

768 said:

The Russians go it alone because they don't have allies that fall into the middle of the Venn diagram for trust, expertise and cash. It costs them a larger share of their GDP for an inferior result.

I suppose ‘result’ is open to interpretation though. It does make the Russians very unreliant on foreign multi-national defence contractors and so less susceptible to pressure from the international community.

Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 30th June 14:52

[Byker28i]

MrMan001 said:

Byker28i said:

Cost, scale, size, complexity of development with modern aircraft, which is why we bought american, why other aircraft have been a joint enterprise etc

It seems a bit odd as the UK used to be able to design and build these things in-house, and the Russians manage it despite having an economy half the size of the UK.

Which might tell you something about their capability, or corners that are cut or the 'direct way' in which it's developed...
or say something about the Agile development and design by committee approach in the west plus the money to be made from military projects...

or probably both

[Dr Jekyll]

Red 4 said:

Yes. It's so good that nations are rowing back/ cancelling their orders.

Even the US admit that overall it is a failure. The UK are a bit wishy washy about how many planes we'll eventually buy because it's problem after problem after problem ...
The problems of range (specifically F-35B) and the lack supercruise ability have still not been addressed.
Is the paint still falling off when it goes supersonic (so they don't bother) ?
You say the aircraft meets its requirements. I suggest those requirements have been scaled back.
On another note, why are we getting F-35B for the Royal Air Force ? Why not F-35A ?

It's a joint force of shared aircraft. RAF 617 sqn F-35s are operating off the Queen Elizabeth now.

[Biggy Stardust]

Red 4 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Red 4 said:

It's summed up very easily. A hugely expensive Jack of All Trades Master of None.

The B is the worst of the bunch. HTH.

Please confirm your credentials to make this assessment.

It's the assessment of many experts in the field. Confirm yours.

Since you insist:



It was the only custard I could lay my hands on at short notice.

May I ask you again to confirm your credentials?

Edited by Biggy Stardust on Wednesday 30th June 14:46

[Red 4]

Biggy Stardust said:

Red 4 said:

Biggy Stardust said:

Red 4 said:

It's summed up very easily. A hugely expensive Jack of All Trades Master of None.

The B is the worst of the bunch. HTH.

Please confirm your credentials to make this assessment.

It's the assessment of many experts in the field. Confirm yours.

Since you insist:



It was the only custard I could lay my hands on at short notice.

Custard ? It appears to show you served in the forces but I'm not sure of the significance to the subject being discussed.

You were quick to rubbish the opinions of serving military personnel earlier because they are members of my family.
Are you feeling OK ?

[Biggy Stardust]

Red 4 said:

Custard ? It appears to show you served in the forces but I'm not sure of the significance to the subject being discussed.

You were quick to rubbish the opinions of serving military personnel earlier because they are members of my family.
Are you feeling OK ?

Actually I was rubbishing your opinions not necessarily theirs.

Significance is that I might have been closer than you to what goes on despite not making strong statements such as yours.

Do you have any credentials to back up your attempt at authority?

[anonymous-user]

This flexing of credentials business is a bit weird. It’s not as if we’re putting in an actual bid to develop aircraft here (or are we? If so I have ideas but no credentials).

[Byker28i]

Red 4 said:

Yes. It's so good that nations are rowing back/ cancelling their orders.

Even the US admit that overall it is a failure. The UK are a bit wishy washy about how many planes we'll eventually buy because it's problem after problem after problem ...
The problems of range (specifically F-35B) and the lack supercruise ability have still not been addressed.
Is the paint still falling off when it goes supersonic (so they don't bother) ?
You say the aircraft meets its requirements. I suggest those requirements have been scaled back.
On another note, why are we getting F-35B for the Royal Air Force ? Why not F-35A ?

Cost on why we are scaling back, our F-35b's are the most expensive of the varients due to it's Vtol capabilities, plus we have reduced requirements based on other developments. As I said, mosaic battlefield, integrating other capabilities. This isn't new, it's been reported since 2017, so you're trying desperately to make a lot out of it.
https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/uk-reportedly-to-c...

You're two years out of date on the paint coating Do try to keep up 007

Supersonic cruising isn't built into the F-35B tactics because of it's planned operations as an integrated weapons platform, as you know being an expert, it's much more than just a weapons delivery system. The supersonic is just for quick emergency bursts and as with all aircraft eats fuel, which is bad for a plane operating with an EWS role, as well as heating up the aircraft and making the stealth obsolete as it becomes detectable...

F35B as you know is the Vtol capable. It makes sense to operate all aircraft of the same type, especially as they will mostly be carrier based.

RAAF have the F35A's which are fully operational

As an expert in the field, I'd have expected you to know all this... but it seems all your research is 2-4 years old.

But enough on this - you've proven you google expertise

[Biggy Stardust]

MrMan001 said:

This flexing of credentials business is a bit weird. It’s not as if we’re putting in an actual bid to develop aircraft here (or are we? If so I have ideas but no credentials).

He presents himself as an expert & I wished to query this.