Russia invades Ukraine. Volume 2

[take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey]

TurboHatchback said:

I would imagine they have colossal reserves of munitions left over from the cold war, we know they have inexhaustible supplies of petroleum and they pay their soldiers buttons so I really doubt that economic pain will affect their practical capability to fight a war any time soon.

I think you'd be surprised at just how unreliable military kit is generally... Never mind Russias.... Especially stuff that's 30-40 years old where the EMIT budget was measured in pennies.

Russia is the master of fur coat and no knickers when it cones to presenting materiel to the world. They're basically broke.

They're great at building a few prototypes that are full of vapour ware, filming them and putting the vids on YouTube.

You only have to look at the amount of Russian 'top secret' projects that get their own YouTube videos... Armata, various PAK projects, their project pluto analogue, etc.

If it works, you never hear about it (Alfa being one example from the past)... Yet YouTube is awash with advanced Russian defence projects.

I do agree though, even with attrition rate brought on by lack of investment, they have enough cold War era kit still functional to further this humanitarian disaster.

[98elise]

vaud said:

rovermorris999 said:

WilliamWoollard said:

I'm no Churchill but aren't they playing the long game? Presumably the longer the convoy sits there the weaker they will get, food, fuel and morale will start running low. If there is an impassable bridge up ahead just ensure it can't be passed and wait it out. If they rebuild the bridge, blow it up again and leave them there. The Ukraines might get some surrenders and capture some kit.

You could be right there. The men in that convoy are sitting in damp, cold conditions with no sanitation, eating crap food and using fuel. Their morale and potential effectiveness will be going down day by day.

Any military types: what is the max time you can deploy like this and maintain morale/effectiveness?

It doesn't sound partially hard. Most people in the armed forces will have experienced harder conditions at one time or another as part of their training, or on operations.

As an example submarine crews work in cramped conditions 12 hour a day for months on end, with no daylight and no fresh air.

I would take sitting by the roadside over that anytime.

[Puggit]

Visa and Mastercard have made announcements about blocking the sanctioned banks in Russia.

[faa77]

98elise said:

vaud said:

rovermorris999 said:

WilliamWoollard said:

I'm no Churchill but aren't they playing the long game? Presumably the longer the convoy sits there the weaker they will get, food, fuel and morale will start running low. If there is an impassable bridge up ahead just ensure it can't be passed and wait it out. If they rebuild the bridge, blow it up again and leave them there. The Ukraines might get some surrenders and capture some kit.

You could be right there. The men in that convoy are sitting in damp, cold conditions with no sanitation, eating crap food and using fuel. Their morale and potential effectiveness will be going down day by day.

Any military types: what is the max time you can deploy like this and maintain morale/effectiveness?

It doesn't sound partially hard. Most people in the armed forces will have experienced harder conditions at one time or another as part of their training, or on operations.

As an example submarine crews work in cramped conditions 12 hour a day for months on end, with no daylight and no fresh air.

I would take sitting by the roadside over that anytime.

Submarines are designed for that though

[jcremonini]

TheJimi said:

There's a redline for the EU / NATO, I just can't make up my mind what it is.

The redline is him attacking an EU or NATO country which he has not done and probably won’t do.

As bad as this might sound, the worst case scenario here is we simply abandon Ukraine to him and make the most of a bad job ( supporting an ongoing resistance ). The alternative, that we engage in a war with Russia directly, does not bear thinking about as the only outcome to that is likely to be nuclear.

As long as any actions are contained within Ukraine then everything will be ok.

[HM-2]

98elise said:

It doesn't sound partially hard. Most people in the armed forces will have experienced harder conditions at one time or another as part of their training, or on operations.

Very few of the Russian forces have actually been deployed anywhere operationally. A handful have been in Syria and maybe 40k rotated through Eastern Ukraine, where they've mostly been advising local militias rather than doing fighting since about 2015. It's pretty clear they're not clear what they're doing, or what's going on, or where they're supposed to be...or how to fight in a conventional military conflict.

[dudleybloke]

take-good-care-of-the-forest-dewey said:

I think you'd be surprised at just how unreliable military kit is generally... Never mind Russias.... Especially stuff that's 30-40 years old where the EMIT budget was measured in pennies.

Russia is the master of fur coat and no knickers when it cones to presenting materiel to the world. They're basically broke.

They're great at building a few prototypes that are full of vapour ware, filming them and putting the vids on YouTube.

You only have to look at the amount of Russian 'top secret' projects that get their own YouTube videos... Armata, various PAK projects, their project pluto analogue, etc.

If it works, you never hear about it (Alfa being one example from the past)... Yet YouTube is awash with advanced Russian defence projects.

I do agree though, even with attrition rate brought on by lack of investment, they have enough cold War era kit still functional to further this humanitarian disaster.

Remember the "accidental" showing of the new wonder torpedo a while ago.

[AngryPartsBloke]

768 said:

Krupp88 said:

768 said:

J210 said:

Question for military experts. Is it common for such a high failure rate of unexploded weapons ? Lots of pictures in different places of all sorts that hasn't blown.

Not a military expert, but I don't think it's abnormal with cluster submunitions. They leave a nasty legacy once the fighting's stopped.

If you have seen the pictures of what look like un-exploded rockets embedded in the ground these are just the rocket motor sections, the cluster devices are held further up the missile in a unit which separates to release the sub munitions.

I mean something like a 9N210.

the cluster bomb that the US & UK used in the MLRS had a 2 percent failure rate. Does not seem a lot, but when you take into account that full salvo could drop over 23K grenade size sub-munitions in a target area that's 400 undetonated devices left on the ground.

[Krupp88]

768 said:

I mean something like a 9N210.

Impact fuzed with an in-built self destruct timer.

I imagine a right pain to clear/make safe which could be a 'design feature' so to speak.

[Rogue86]

768 said:

Not a military expert, but I don't think it's abnormal with cluster submunitions. They leave a nasty legacy once the fighting's stopped.

I spent a bit of time in the Middle East with EOD teams clearing up some of the legacy of Russian cluster munitions. If memory serves, at the time we used to operate on the idea that around 30% of the munitions don't detonate properly.

[king arthur]

Earthdweller said:

I do feel that we are approaching a crunch moment, for years we in the west have appeased Putin and emboldened him, almost encouraging his actions

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine lots of the words were mealy mouthed, as an example Biden’s comments about how big an invasion it turned out to be would make him decide what to do .. almost an invite, and pretty shocking comments

So now we are in (notso) proxy war .. NATO and the EU are to all intents and purposes at war with Russia .. granted NATO troops don’t appear to be on the ground but might as well be

I’m sure Russia views it that way, we have taken sides ( rightly I think )

It’s phony and cannot continue as it is, we are either in/out and that is the crunch

What will happen I have no idea but I do feel that the crunch is coming and NATO will be drawn further into the conflict

I think it’s unavoidable and sadly necessary as appeasement has never worked, at some point you have to stand and fight and it’s either now or tomorrow but I think it’s coming

Feel free to persuade me im wrong .. I really want to be

I don't think you're wrong.

[anonymous-user]

BBC Live has reported that Ukrainian pilots are picking up their Migs in Poland, and may soon be operating from there.
Vlad will not be fond of Poland!

[Whoozit]

Puggit said:

Visa and Mastercard have made announcements about blocking the sanctioned banks in Russia.

Link please. I'm not asking you to cut and paste, just to save my Google hamster. It's getting tired

[FiF]

Vickers_VC10 said:

Dog Star said:

Anyone else feeling very relieved that we aren't likely to be running into Russians on our holidays anymore? I really don't think I'd be able to refrain from letting them know what I think of their scummy country and regime - how many more decades of their batst behaviour must we endure? (And yes - it IS the Russian people - not just Putin).

So at least no more having to look at their clown-like ski outfits, pissed up vodka fuelled boorishness, pushing in ski lift queues, barging in buffets etc. fk 'em! Enjoy your potato soup back home, scumbags.

I am really so fed up with these aholes

Just Russians? Tbh that makes you sound like a massive in all honesty.

Well maybe, maybe not. Travel dept used to keep booking me into the Helsingborg Scandic on Friday nights as it was a handy staging post. Finally had to tell them to find somewhere else as there was often a Russian coach party in. Just appalling, everytime. Any other coaches from other nations, place was busy but things fairly normal, yet the Russians. Breakfast buffet was an eye opener the first time.

Clearly to be fair there are subsets of all nations who can be unbearable to anyone who just likes a bit of peace and quiet and to mosey along under the radar, generally being respectful and fitting in.

[blueg33]

Dog Star said:

Anyone else feeling very relieved that we aren't likely to be running into Russians on our holidays anymore? I really don't think I'd be able to refrain from letting them know what I think of their scummy country and regime - how many more decades of their batst behaviour must we endure? (And yes - it IS the Russian people - not just Putin).

So at least no more having to look at their clown-like ski outfits, pissed up vodka fuelled boorishness, pushing in ski lift queues, barging in buffets etc. fk 'em! Enjoy your potato soup back home, scumbags.

I am really so fed up with these aholes

Does it mean that Megeve will become an affordable ski resort again?

[Lotobear]

Vickers_VC10 said:

Just Russians? Tbh that makes you sound like a massive in all honesty.

To be fair they are without doubt the most arrogant, rude and obnoxious s (to borrow your own expletive) I have ever come across, at least the ones you encounter on holiday. Normal Russians may well be 'nice' but I've never met any of those.

[TyrannosauRoss Lex]

king arthur said:

Earthdweller said:

I do feel that we are approaching a crunch moment, for years we in the west have appeased Putin and emboldened him, almost encouraging his actions

Prior to the invasion of Ukraine lots of the words were mealy mouthed, as an example Biden’s comments about how big an invasion it turned out to be would make him decide what to do .. almost an invite, and pretty shocking comments

So now we are in (notso) proxy war .. NATO and the EU are to all intents and purposes at war with Russia .. granted NATO troops don’t appear to be on the ground but might as well be

I’m sure Russia views it that way, we have taken sides ( rightly I think )

It’s phony and cannot continue as it is, we are either in/out and that is the crunch

What will happen I have no idea but I do feel that the crunch is coming and NATO will be drawn further into the conflict

I think it’s unavoidable and sadly necessary as appeasement has never worked, at some point you have to stand and fight and it’s either now or tomorrow but I think it’s coming

Feel free to persuade me im wrong .. I really want to be

I don't think you're wrong.

Me neither, unfortunately

[BikeBikeBIke]

Whoozit said:

Link please. I'm not asking you to cut and paste, just to save my Google hamster. It's getting tired

+1

It's so frustrating.

[21st Century Man]

Watching BBC Parliament and I find it amazing that we can watch a Select Committee talking directly to Latvia & Lithuania & Estonia Defence Ministers and Deputy PM's live and openly discussing matters. Obvs not about military details but analysis and policy.

[Puggit]

TO73074E said:

Whoozit said:

Puggit said:

Visa and Mastercard have made announcements about blocking the sanctioned banks in Russia.

Link please. I'm not asking you to cut and paste, just to save my Google hamster. It's getting tired

https://googlethatforyou.com?q=Visa%20and%20Mastercard%20have%20made%20announcements%20about%20blocking%20the%20sanctioned%20banks%20in%20Russia.%20

Here's a clickable one https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/mastercard-visa-...