CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

[jameswills]

Uggers said:

I'm glad Sensei-rob has posted this. It's refreshing that he has fleshed out his reasons rather than just been a contrarian like a few others, so give him credit for that.

It is a mindset unfortunately that seems to be prevailing though? Maybe not the general population, but definitly the direction of travel of Sage, media and the government response to them?

How that attitude changes I don't know, maybe when the money taps are switched off? We have just cracked 100% debt to Gdp, Italy are at 160%debt to Gdp and they're fine, so plenty more money to come

Same. It’s a very bold plan, but I fear someone hasn’t really thought it through or understand how absolutely everything in our society is quite intrinsically linked. And this misunderstanding on how a virus just doesn’t go away and how you simply cannot just shut down society without causing extreme harm and death is more widespread than you would wish to imagine.

[richardxjr]

NerveAgent said:

I think Sensei-robs viewpoint is sadly pretty representative of the general population.

“Everyone just needs to stay at home!” Then once probed a little further they roll out a load of caveats which basically describe pretty much exactly what is actually happening.

Yup. It seems that literally nobody is understanding that the risk to most people has always been TINY. And what is life without a little bit of risk anyway.

[jameswills]

Crippo said:

I’m the complete opposite. I think it would have been better to have ignored COVID completely. 1 % of the Global population would have died of some COVID related illness and the disease would quickly have reached an equilibrium. We would have some herd type immunity with it and vaccine development could have carried on just as it has anyway. I think people rights and freedoms are far more important than stopping them from dieing from one particular disease. I think this has been an experiment of Communist revolutionary proportions not within our political or economic lives but of our ACTUAL Lives.

Far too sensible. Would never happen.

[Uggers]

Boringvolvodriver said:

isaldiri said:

bodhi said:

On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.

With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.

The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.

Pretty much this. Have to admit I'm rather glad you posted this as I was started to think I was a little crazed for seemingly being the only one a little unconvinced about the irrevocable path to eternal worship of Schwab or something.......

Another one who can go along with this.

That is the thing with all that goes on, you do start to question your own thinking and trying to make sense of it all. I try to apply some logical thought (emphasis on try) to it all and end up tying myself in knots!

This is my view too. I'm not interested in the conspiracies it's easy to then make assumptions for the pro lockdowners that we are all 5G, micro chip nut jobs.

I'm just an ordinary guy, with an ordinary family. I've done alright in life with fairly logical thinking so far, and employed to be fairly logical.

But the series of events over the last year I cannot reconcile with the danger of the disease. Its incredibly frustrating!

[danllama]

NerveAgent said:

I think Sensei-robs viewpoint is sadly pretty representative of the general population.

“Everyone just needs to stay at home!” Then once probed a little further they roll out a load of caveats which basically describe pretty much exactly what is actually happening.

This tickled me but spot on

[survivalist]

Carrot said:

Sensei Rob said:

Carrot said:

Sensei Rob said:

Covid cases should be treated at home, not in a hospital.

For those extremely rare cases that require ventilator support - how does that work?

Simple. They either recover or they die. What they won't do is spread the virus to other people.

Suppose it was an extremely virulent version of ebola, rather than corona, how would you treat the infected?

Oh boy... I am out. There is less chance of dying of the virus than lettings potentially millions of people die in their home of starvation etc...

Nuanced indeed...

Seems that giving everyone in the UK the virus intentionally would produce a lower death toll. Besides, it wouldn't work as we don't have a army or police force to implement it.

It would also only work we then closed our borders forever, or persuaded the entire world to do the same.

It conveniently ignores that New Zealand and Australia have got as close to this bonkers 'nirvana' as is likely possible and they still have had recent cases and lockdowns.

[anonymous-user]

danllama said:

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

danllama said:

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

danllama said:

Yep. Been saying this for months. They don't want this to be over.

Prepare to eat humble pie.

I predict you are one of those posters that will skulk off with your tail between your legs over the coming months. Basically, you're wrong and you know it.

Morning Gadget. I won't be skulking off anywhere, seeing as I've been around here for over 10 years. Why would I say something I thought was wrong? Bizarre.

I would love to be wrong obviously. Fingers crossed for normal by July

Edited by danllama on Wednesday 3rd March 07:55

I'm not gadget so there's something else you've got wrong today!

Easy mistake to make

Yep, certainly appears easy for you to make that mistake

[Elysium]

Harrison Bergeron said:

Sensei Rob said:

Yeah, there are thousands that keep the wheels turning. They're at risk, sure. The difference is, you don't get people walking about or gathering like you do today, and you wouldn't get stuff like people getting on planes and going on holidays.

You are so dense that light bends around you.

Its so simple, we just make everyone in the world stay at home for 8 weeks and the virus will be gone. I can't believe we did not think of it.

[Boringvolvodriver]

danllama said:

NerveAgent said:

I think Sensei-robs viewpoint is sadly pretty representative of the general population.

“Everyone just needs to stay at home!” Then once probed a little further they roll out a load of caveats which basically describe pretty much exactly what is actually happening.

This tickled me but spot on

I will keep saying but the one thing that is out of control is hypocrisy- it is rife across the country.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Uggers said:

This is my view too. I'm not interested in the conspiracies it's easy to then make assumptions for the pro lockdowners that we are all 5G, micro chip nut jobs.

I'm just an ordinary guy, with an ordinary family. I've done alright in life with fairly logical thinking so far, and employed to be fairly logical.

But the series of events over the last year I cannot reconcile with the danger of the disease. Its incredibly frustrating!

Exactly - I went through my career having to examine information that was given to me and the challenge what was presented before making a decision. Because strangely not every business gave you either the full information or presented it a way that was correct.


If I had believed everything I had been told, then I wouldn’t have had a job for long as I would have lost my employers a fair bit of money!

[JuanCarlosFandango]

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/02/dad-strip-searched-...

How on earth can they justify a strip search? It is simply appalling bullying.

[danllama]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It wouldn't surprise me if some of these stories are made up with actors used. Just to manipulate people. Obviously I'm well aware the police are behaving like s at the moment.

[Graveworm]

MikeT66 said:

I'd have one caveat on that apology, Gary - that we do not return to this inhuman and anti-democratic madness again in September. Even if everything turns out OK, I think this is the closest we've come to effectively losing our democracy and way of life, and we must make procedural steps to ensure it does not happen again.

Whether you agree with it or not. A democratically elected government, largely supported by the democratically elected opposition and the democratically elected devolved administrations, passing laws to introduce restrictions, which are broadly supported by the majority, seems to be the definition of democracy at work.

[TV8]

JuanCarlosFandango said:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/02/dad-strip-searched-...

How on earth can they justify a strip search? It is simply appalling bullying.

There are a couple of London videos from the weekend that if it were a foreign country and a year ago, the BBC and the media would be going mad about. Now it’s acceptable for Biden to dismiss some of China’s bad stuff as cultural differences and this stuff is ignored.

Personally, I think there is going to be a “Falling Down” type moment soon. People are openly saying how they out number police but let them get away with it.

[JuanCarlosFandango]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That could backfire. I like a bit of CFNM.

Dear police ladies,

This afternoon I am planning a totally frivolous 100 mile round trip to the beach at Bamburgh in Northumberland.

You won't miss me, I have a big red beard and a 9" cock as you will find out.

[danllama]

TV8 said:

JuanCarlosFandango said:

https://metro.co.uk/2021/03/02/dad-strip-searched-...

How on earth can they justify a strip search? It is simply appalling bullying.

There are a couple of London videos from the weekend that if it were a foreign country and a year ago, the BBC and the media would be going mad about. Now it’s acceptable for Biden to dismiss some of China’s bad stuff as cultural differences and this stuff is ignored.

Personally, I think there is going to be a “Falling Down” type moment soon. People are openly saying how they out number police but let them get away with it.

It's easy to forget they were blabbering on about our rights and economy for 4 years post EU referendum. fking vile body of people our media.

[CrutyRammers]

Carrot said:

I am getting really pissed off now by people talking about staying "safe"

Like Biker1, I ride motorcycles, have scuba dived, cycle to work on city roads, have been rock climbing, been a tourist at some properly dangerous places in my life as well.

Yet a girl at our office is off work on endless paid sick leave because she doesn't feel 'safe' coming into the office. Mid 30's, not overweight, no known health conditions.

Do people have a fking clue what safe actually means?? You have more chance of winning the lottery whilst crashing in a commercial airline than dying of COVID or probably even getting remotely ill from it at that age...

I fear that any activity may be banned now. If the country is shut down from a virus with a 99.x% survival rate, imagine what sports or activities could be shut down...

Similar here. It shouldn't, but seeing folks who's biggest risk is doing the school run spouting about "feeling safe" really grates. They're so insulated from actual danger, they've become scared of everything.

[MikeT66]

Graveworm said:

MikeT66 said:

I'd have one caveat on that apology, Gary - that we do not return to this inhuman and anti-democratic madness again in September. Even if everything turns out OK, I think this is the closest we've come to effectively losing our democracy and way of life, and we must make procedural steps to ensure it does not happen again.

Whether you agree with it or not. A democratically elected government, largely supported by the democratically elected opposition and the democratically elected devolved administrations, passing laws to introduce restrictions, which are broadly supported by the majority, seems to be the definition of democracy at work.

In remain doubtful of 'the majority' wanting this. I know a few shouty types on social media, none at work or among people I meet and chat to in the town centre. Unless someone is lying, somewhere.

Also, there have been plenty of commentaries from the likes of Graham Brady and Lord Sumption about how the government have bypassed lawful democratic process on purpose.

Don't get me started on 'the opposition'....

[jameswills]

Graveworm said:

Whether you agree with it or not. A democratically elected government, largely supported by the democratically elected opposition and the democratically elected devolved administrations, passing laws to introduce restrictions, which are broadly supported by the majority, seems to be the definition of democracy at work.

That’s not what is happening. Many of the laws are being brought in without any parliamentary scrutiny. The only reason we went to the tiered system is that parliament then demanded there be a vote on national lockdowns, so to avoid that the government introduced tiered local lockdowns, where no vote was required. 10pm curfews, not voted on. Rule of 6, not voted on. Christmas measures not voted on, waited until parliament was closed in fact. This has been as undemocratic as you’ll ever likely to see.

[Ntv]

Sensei Rob said:

Zoobeef said:

Sensei Rob said:

The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.

But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.

Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.

Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.

Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.

Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.

Do we sit at home in the dark with no food for those 8 weeks? No police on the street? No NHS running? No public transport etc etc.
"Stay at home for 8 weeks" is a stupid idea. As everyone can't stay at home.

No, it's not a stupid idea.

It's nuanced, and I didn't feel like writing an essay. No matter, It can work:

Key workers (food production and distribution, medical staff, etc.) continue working with PPE. Police as well as the Army can patrol the streets to make sure civilians stay at home.

All shopping done online, so some staff will still need to enable that.

The banks put a hold on mortgages and loans for 8 weeks.

Yeah, there are drawbacks, of course. The alternative is what's happening right now, where people take half measures, fumble around and eff things up as normal.

Now ask yourself - would you have gone through 8 weeks of the above or do you think what we did was the better alternative?

Your plan has no chance of success I'm afraid. One interesting facet of the pandemic that is manifest in your plan is the complete failure (usually on the part of the media and public) to understand relativities.

There are 68m people in the UK. The UK army has 110,000 personel including reserves. But of course at any one time maybe a quarter of that number could actually be on the streets. There 50,000 cities, towns, villages, and hamlets in the UK.

So would you go 1 soldier to cover 2 built up areas each? Would the guy covering London maybe do a nearby hamlet also?

In practice millions of people would still meet, there would be huge resistance and the army very likely be chased out of some inner city mean streets as they wouldn't want to fire on a crowd to perpetuate the madness.