How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 5)

[philv]

mx5nut said:

psi310398 said:

Ghibli said:

What happened to the special bespoke deal that was on offer during the referendum campaign. Didn't you vote for that.

I don't recall seeing WTO being offered. Perhaps you could link to it.

Why don't we focus on the question of what was on the ballot paper? I wouldn't want you to be inconsistent

The ballot paper talked about leaving or remaining in the European Union. Despite the bleating of Brexiters who hoped it was code for something else, May's deal fulfils that.

So does suicide of the nation via detonating all our ncclear weapons on home soil.
That then is acceptable?

It’s that black and white?

Have an agrrement where everything is exactly as being inntne eu, but we leave.
That ok to?

[Tuna]

mx5nut said:

I know some of the more extreme Brexiters like to fantasise about the chance they might get to smash things up if enough of them get angry about the outcome, but I'm still shocked to see posters on a car forum propose keying vehicles because they don't agree with how they imagine the owners voted

I suggest you think carefully before misrepresenting what was said.

[bitchstewie]

jsf said:

Economic consequences of the colapse of demand for resale.

All lease deals are based on value of the car at the end of the deal.

Even if the ABC+ EU loving classes still want to buy the product, they may find the lack of demand from the lower socio economic now pissed off Brexit voter groups leaves them with cars they cant sell.

That means new deals cant be financed on that particular product.

I drive a BMW now.

I asked for EU plates and the guy at the dealership was telling me that he has no end of customers who insist on not having EU plates despite having just purchased a German car.

What you're suggesting could happen but I'd be amazed if it did on any significant scale.

[wc98]

psi310398 said:

It would also be effective to show disapproval by applying that policy to any UK or overseas company whose senior staff have been actively trying to frustrate Brexit.

this is something i will try to do. not buying products from mainland europe not so much, it is the eu politicians that get my goat, not the people of europe,many of whom are getting a proper eu shafting at the moment.

[anonymous-user]

Piha said:

The only time I've experienced this type of barbaric behaviour is when the Engerland lost to Germany in the Wendyball. I recall a load of drunken thugs trashing a handful of VW's. It would appear you likening our great British public to mob of uneducated drunken violent football thugs?

Again.

Wow!!!

That's some statement.

I am doing no such thing.

I am explaining to you in very simple terms that when people are politically disenfranchised they use the power they do have to express their displeasure.

In my example they are using their economic power.

I am not suggesting anything illegal or violent is required.

As a said, to think producing an outcome that leaves a large group of people feeling they have been screwed and ignored after the largest democratic process in our history came down on their side doesn't produce consequences is nieve.

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

mx5nut said:

I know some of the more extreme Brexiters like to fantasise about the chance they might get to smash things up if enough of them get angry about the outcome, but I'm still shocked to see posters on a car forum propose keying vehicles because they don't agree with how they imagine the owners voted

I suggest you think carefully before misrepresenting what was said.

Think carefully? The Nutter?

[mx5nut]

jsf said:

I am explaining to you in very simple terms that when people are politically disenfranchised they use the power they do have to express their displeasure.

Since none of them can agree on what they actually voted for, it's been proposed that we take a second vote to clarify things.

Unfortunately there is one significant group that seems to be against that, just in case the result is not what they personally wanted it to mean

By pushing hard Brexit/no deal as the only option, the extremists will put the general public off the whole idea.

[tumble dryer]

mx5nut said:

I know some of the more extreme Brexiters like to fantasise about the chance they might get to smash things up if enough of them get angry about the outcome, but I'm still shocked to see posters on a car forum propose keying vehicles because they don't agree with how they imagine the owners voted

That deserves to be reported.

[anonymous-user]

bhstewie said:

I drive a BMW now.

I asked for EU plates and the guy at the dealership was telling me that he has no end of customers who insist on not having EU plates despite having just purchased a German car.

What you're suggesting could happen but I'd be amazed if it did on any significant scale.

BMW and Audi and even VW are aspirational purchases, if you remove that desire from that brand its dead very quickly.

Just ask Mr Ratner what that looks like when you trash your brand with the lower socio economic groups in particular.

[Einion Yrth]

tumble dryer said:

mx5nut said:

I know some of the more extreme Brexiters like to fantasise about the chance they might get to smash things up if enough of them get angry about the outcome, but I'm still shocked to see posters on a car forum propose keying vehicles because they don't agree with how they imagine the owners voted

That deserves to be reported.

Not really, it's an imbecile; just shake your head and move on...

[soupdragon1]

soupdragon1 said:

Sway said:

soupdragon1 said:

Dont know how i missed this post. Yes, thats the type of solution we should be looking for, and I'm hoping that's arranged. I thought we were originally talking about a hard border, which is what I'm saying is a crap outcome, due to the impact, but finding the correct political agreement? Yes, absolutely. But if we're having a soft border, it needs to be in the Irish Sea, as that's already a border, in physical terms, due to being sea instead of land.

It's never going to be in the Irish Sea - firstly, that really does "breach the integrity of the Single Market and Customs Union". Secondly, the last thing any nation will ever do is have wildly different regulatory regimes across it's regions.

Thirdly, it's not an international consignment moving from NI to GB - why on earth would you put in place a WTO compliant border for everything when only a percentage is international trade?

There's a border today. It can stay there, and for all intents and purposes be invisible.

Shipping declarations get submitted electronically as they do today, checks (either spot, random, targeted or required in the case of foodstuffs) can occur on premises, as everyone in the chain is using industry best practices to control the integrity of the supply chain.

Job done.

I certainly wouldn't argue against checking goods at premises as a workable solution if that's what can be agreed politically. But it also seems broad brush to cover lots of product types, however if even it covered high volume product then it's better than some other proposals.

RE your point about breaching integrity of CU and SM, exemptions can be made. And with Dominic Raab visiting the ports on his recent visit to NI, and not going near the Irish Border, on top of T Mays recent wordings changing to more ambiguous language in reference to NI retaining constitutional integrity with the rest of the UK, I would say that it's a lot more likely to see a soft border in the Irish Sea than on land in Ireland.
NI effectively retaining EU status, along with exporting freely into GB, is seen by many as the final piece in the jigsaw.

Quoting this from about 100 pages back....I did see this coming and it was indeed, the final piece of the jigsaw.

I officially proclaim myself PH official Brexit 'mystic meg'

Next prediction. The current Brexit proposal gets the required backing in parliament, and despite current number crunching saying T May won't get enough votes, she will.

Any other brexit forecasts required? PM me.












5 euros (+19% VAT) per prediction

[bitchstewie]

jsf said:

BMW and Audi and even VW are aspirational purchases, if you remove that desire from that brand its dead very quickly.

Just ask Mr Ratner what that looks like when you trash your brand with the lower socio economic groups in particular.

People who feel strongly enough about the EU already have (and have had since forever) the choice not to buy a German car.

Many still do though.

I'm not sure it's quite the same as some kind of petulant reaction when people were presumably quite happy buying German until the referendum.

As I said, could it happen? Absolutely, but I'd be very surprised if sales of German vehicles slump simply on principle.

[Einion Yrth]

soupdragon1 said:

Quoting this from about 100 pages back....I did see this coming and it was indeed, the final piece of the jigsaw.

I officially proclaim myself PH official Brexit 'mystic meg'

Next prediction. The current Brexit proposal gets the required backing in parliament, and despite current number crunching saying T May won't get enough votes, she will.

Any other brexit forecasts required? PM me.












5 euros (+19% VAT) per prediction

A cross party move to frustrate exit from the EU? Likely to have some consequences I'd have thought.

[powerstroke]

jsf said:

Yes i do.

Also bear in mind a lot of these deals are now short term lease.

You could find owning a BMW becomes toxic for the traditional 2nd buyer, who is a just getting by Brexit voter.

You just crashed the lease car market and turned the taps off new deals because its cheaper to buy Japanese.

possibly but also people are finding out they are not a good as they once were and not a great bet if not under warranty
chocolate timing chains, oil burning , fragile emissions systems etc and repair prices north side of oh st ..
the days of buying a quality german car are gone , and everyone has one so not a status symbol either ...

[Rich_W]

bhstewie said:

I asked for EU plates and the guy at the dealership was telling me that he has no end of customers who insist on not having EU plates despite having just purchased a German car.

Do we really need to explain the difference between Germany, a lovely country with a long history and generally nice people and the EU? No wonder you voted to Remain. No concept of what you were voting for

You can be pro BMW. Pro Germany even. And still anti-Eu.

[jonnyb]

I think some on here are vastly overestimating just how much the general population cares about all this brexit stuff.

For most people it falls well below strictly on the “give a st ometer”!

[powerstroke]

jonnyb said:

I think some on here are vastly overestimating just how much the general population cares about all this brexit stuff.

For most people it falls well below strictly on the “give a st ometer”!

Funny then how the referendum was the biggest turnout of voters ever ....

[Vanden Saab]

Ghibli said:

psi310398 said:

They can also say that a Clean Exit (aka WTO) is a perfectly valid option in the light of the referendum result, and you know it.

What happened to the special bespoke deal that was on offer during the referendum campaign. Didn't you vote for that.

I don't recall seeing WTO being offered. Perhaps you could link to it.

It was the main focus of Economists for Brexit thinking pre-referendum and the BBC did a reality check piece on it here.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referend...

Not surprised you missed it TBF...

If you really want to learn what would result from trading under WTO rules a handy guide from them is here.... https://www.economistsforfreetrade.com/wp-content/...

[rs1952]

jsf said:

I did my supermarket shop yesterday. Thanks to labelling laws i could see the country of origin of the product, not just the product raw material but where it was processed.

Any meat that had any ireland content or processing i put back on the shelf. I bought only 100% Britsh meat.

Yes. Those EU labelling laws - you know - those damn pesky interfering regulations we can get shot of shortly

Then you'd better start hoping that the people working in the slaughterhouse aren't Irish or Romanian and sending their wages and in-work benefits back home...

[Cold]

Good old Aunty Nic Nac. Always making it about her.