45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 12)

[andy_s]

Double Fault said:

Plenty was discussed, but any defence of Trump seemed out to be based on highly skewed sources and/or dubious personal opinions.

Suspect pro-Trump/GOP folks weren't so keen on that, and suspect that's something to do with where we've landed.

It did have a cultish vibe, tbh. It seemed difficult to untangle Trump from Trump's policy's, however distal. A problem you could see in the journals and media in the States, so hardly surprising to see it here. Very Manichean.

-

I don't see anything wrong with what Byker was doing, and enjoyed the agglomeration myself, but can also understand that the odd copy pasta is different from a sort of systematic regurgitation.

Not understanding publishing copyright law etc though, I find it difficult to criticise or condemn PH, but it would be good to have it clarified. If it was that at all.

[tvrolet]

Just back from a week way and first thread to visit on PH is this one - and it seems Byker's banned? Crazy decision IMHO - there can't be many other threads on PH with so many readers/lurkers vs posters. Getting fewer and fewer reasons to keep visiting PH...

[eharding]

Double Fault said:

APontus said:

It might be that Byker had had prior warning when he was banned from the Biden thread.

Might be, might not be the case.

I'd be surprised if he ignored a warning but only he/the mods could confirm.

He's on record in Website Feedback as saying no warning was issued, which wasn't contradicted by any of the moderators.

[silentbrown]

HM-2 said:

eharding said:

HM-2 said:

A few pages ago someone posted a breakdown of what proportion of posts on this thread were from Byker. It wasn't particularly high, about 10% IIRC.

273 of 5476, so just under 5%. It was just over 5% before the weekend.

Even lower than I thought then. A thread which is composed of over 95% posts by other members is hardly a "soapbox".

I'd take that figure with a big pinch of salt. According to the thread stats his last post was on 22nd May...

[rscott]

APontus said:

It might be that Byker had had prior warning when he was banned from the Biden thread.

He was banned from that with no warning too - just a straight red and stopped from posting on the thread.
The point about his ban from the Trump thread is the inconsistency of the application and the failure of the mods to follow their own rules.
He was banned specifically for copying too much from news articles, despite him having done exactly that for 5 years and several mods had interacted with him on those threads. A mod confirmed in Website Feedback that someone should receive a warning first and only a ban if they fail to change their behaviour.

[Double Fault]

silentbrown said:

I'd take that figure with a big pinch of salt. According to the thread stats his last post was on 22nd May...

Whatever % it is, it's not breaking any rule.

[eldar]

PRTVR said:

Maybe that's the point, instead of being a discussion it turned into a soapbox for Byker28i.

No one had to join, participate or view the thread, it was an individual choice. It is clear it was closed down by complainants afraid of what was being said and partial moderation.

If you don't like a thread don't watch or join, don't be like the kid that takes their ball home because they are losing.

[Not-The-Messiah]

paulguitar said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

Can I ask how did the Russians use this so called control in Trump's presidency?

One example was how long it took to impose sanctions after the Salisbury poisonings. It eventually got done after many months of pressure on trump from congress, and a call just ahead of the sanctions being imposed with his handler Putin.

Of course, trump concealed the details of at least one meeting with Putin by taking the interpreter's notes, so there is a lot we don't know.

I assume we have the notes and transcript of the Biden meeting?
Had a quick search but couldn't find anything other than the press conference after.

[rscott]

Not-The-Messiah said:

paulguitar said:

Not-The-Messiah said:

Can I ask how did the Russians use this so called control in Trump's presidency?

One example was how long it took to impose sanctions after the Salisbury poisonings. It eventually got done after many months of pressure on trump from congress, and a call just ahead of the sanctions being imposed with his handler Putin.

Of course, trump concealed the details of at least one meeting with Putin by taking the interpreter's notes, so there is a lot we don't know.

I assume we have the notes and transcript of the Biden meeting?
Had a quick search but couldn't find anything other than the press conference after.

"We" don't, but the US government does. They're kept in the permanent archive, same as for all other presidential meetings, except the ones Trump had.

[eharding]

Double Fault said:

silentbrown said:

I'd take that figure with a big pinch of salt. According to the thread stats his last post was on 22nd May...

Whatever % it is, it's not breaking any rule.

As per Website Feedback, the stats are indeed borked, or at least misleading. If you want something counted properly, then count it yourself.....so, using all of my fingers and toes to count, by my reckoning Byker's total was actually 1527 out of 5488 (at least as of a few minutes ago). Interestingly, his posts were quoted 604 times - far more than any other poster - which implies to me at least the degree of discussion his posts were generating. I'm missing them already.

[citizensm1th]

I wonder how a thread such as the flight radar one is allowed to exist?

It is endless post after Post of proprietary information copied and pasted from another website who's terms specifically forbid professional or personal use on other websites.

Not to mention flight radar is Swedish and given the Swedish courts attitude to copyright infringements I am most surprised at ph condoning it

[rscott]

citizensm1th said:

I wonder how a thread such as the flight radar one is allowed to exist?

It is endless post after Post of proprietary information copied and pasted from another website who's terms specifically forbid professional or personal use on other websites.

Not to mention flight radar is Swedish and given the Swedish courts attitude to copyright infringements I am most surprised at ph condoning it

Weirdly, use of pictures doesn't seem to be an issue - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[Prolex-UK]

Tycho said:

silentbrown said:

HM-2 said:

I've requested a clarification on this and been told I should expect one in due course. FWIW quoting whole articles is also acceptable under fair use for the purposes of criticism or commentary too, so the size of what's quoted shouldn't really matter as long as that's the intent.

Yes. PH can of course make their own rules, but the "because copyright" thing really isn't helpful or accurate. Copying (correctly attributed) content from, say, Wikinews or wikipedia does not breach their copyright.

Rule16 said:

Do not copy and paste content from newspapers, news sites or other websites. This is a breach of their copyright and any such threads will be deleted.

I'm sorry but this rule 16 is just an excuse. If it was the issue then the content would have been removed and not left up if a copywrite notice had been received.

I agree

Need a mod to answer a simple question

Has any organisation made a complaint againt a link Byker posted.

Yes or no

Simples

[citizensm1th]

rscott said:

citizensm1th said:

I wonder how a thread such as the flight radar one is allowed to exist?

It is endless post after Post of proprietary information copied and pasted from another website who's terms specifically forbid professional or personal use on other websites.

Not to mention flight radar is Swedish and given the Swedish courts attitude to copyright infringements I am most surprised at ph condoning it

Weirdly, use of pictures doesn't seem to be an issue - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Well that blows the stance of rule 16 being for the protection of ph and its users from legal action right out of the water then.

Copyright on pictures has been strictly enforced in the courts I seem to remember

[5 In a Row]

I'm an infrequent poster but regular visitor to this thread and have found Byker's posts to be very informative in, initially, understanding the events of the Trump election campaign and, latterly, following the events around the post-election realisation of just how many bad things Team Trump had been up to.

I live and work in the UK, have never been to the US and now certainly have no desire to go there but I understand that they are a massive power in the world have a huge influence in how our own country operates.

So on that basis I now want to hear what they're doing to bring the guy who was formerly the 'Most Powerful Man in the World' to justice.

This thread was a fantastic way to do that but now looks likely to be significantly less helpful (apologies to other regular posters but Byker's posts were the catalyst for ongoing discussions).

[Tartan Pixie]

anonymoususer said:

Aside from any opinion on Bykers postings.

I really find it surprising that 6 months on from him going his thread (Trumps) is still going.
Personally I wish he would completely go away so The States can move on from that odd period.

Move on to what?

Trump may have drawn the headlines but he was only ever the front man for an increasingly authoritarian movement which relies on lies and misinformation to undermine democracy, something that will only continue if allowed to fester rather than being defeated in the courts and at the ballot box.

The importance of maintaining democracy and a smooth transfer of power should be obvious to anyone simply by looking around. How many items in your close vicinity were built and developed in a liberal democracy? Conversely why do you not own a Russian laptop, an Egyptian car or a Vietnamese cell phone?

There is no going back while the GOP is determined to destroy the democracy which underpins our standard of living and which so many people have struggled to achieve.

[Tartan Pixie]

Governor Vetoes Funding For Texas Legislature After Showdown Over Voting Reform - https://dailycaller.com/2021/06/19/texas-governor-...

Trump may be a sad old man playing his greatest hits to a decreasing audience but he is still the front man for people like Texas Gov. Greg Abbott.

Passing legislation to make voting more difficult for his opponents and defunding democratic institutions is straight up authoritarianism.

[AW111]

APontus said:

Why was Byker banned from the Biden thread?

Allegedly for posting "off topic".

Also allegedly some posters kept reporting him in an attempt to get him banned.


Not allegedly there are some very nasty Trump supporters on PH.

There are also some very, very stupid Trump supporters - the type of idiots who e.g. accuse everyone not pro-Trump of being left-wing.

[Tartan Pixie]

Adding my voice to say that banning Byker with no warning and no opportunity to amend errant behaviour was a terrible piece of moderation.

PH need to decide whether being a hub for anti-vaxers, conspiracy theorists and loons is a good look for their business.

[captain_cynic]

Tartan Pixie said:

Adding my voice to say that banning Byker with no warning and no opportunity to amend errant behaviour was a terrible piece of moderation.

PH need to decide whether being a hub for anti-vaxers, conspiracy theorists and loons is a good look for their business.

This.

The powers that be need to decide just what kind of audience they want for this site.

BTW, anyone know of any good alternatives to PH?