How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 3)
Discussion
JagLover said:
crankedup said:
crankedup said:
Any posters have a pov regarding the likelihood that the EU negotiating team will be able to work a deal from the U.K. proposal?
Anyone?
It depends on who you ask really some commentators are saying May has been discussing this with EU leaders since March, others that the EU commission will reject it anyway.
Despite Remainer gloating as far as I can see it is a worse deal than simply leaving under WTO rules. However Lawson claims in the Sunday Times today that he asked a senior EU bureaucrat why they would possible reject it, given that it safeguards all the EUs economic interests and few of the UKs. The response was that it wasn't about the economics.
I think many Brexiteers will be very happy if the EU rejects it out of hand, but it isn't clear what has been going on behind the scenes.
I agree it seems that everything is all to play for, although the EU could flounce and walk away from the proposals. Doing that would, imo, be a huge mistake both in financial and PR terms which will affect the remaining EU Countries as well as the U.K. Seems to me this is the last minute bid for serious discussions and agreements to be made. Wouldn’t like to place a single penny bet on an outcome for either side.
citizensm1th said:
That is an interesting point, I wonder if Barnier is aware of that
You do understand that the 'fun to watch stuff' is a complete side show, and within the week, Barnier could push us into a complete, no-deal WTO exit?I really don't think you understand the consequences of this debate in the slightest, or quite what impact the proposed deal would have on your life if it were accepted.
citizensm1th said:
davepoth said:
Whether or not it will annoy Rees-Mogg will not figure very highly in his thinking. 
But will it figure high in his puppet masters thinking? i wonder if macron has a devilish sidedon'tbesilly said:
I voted Cameron in 2015, I voted May/Tories in 2017, never again.
I'd never vote Labour, nor of any of the offerings, how many more will think/do the same?
Same here. If this becomes the deal, i'll be voting for an independant that wants to scrap the deal. It's a cluster fI'd never vote Labour, nor of any of the offerings, how many more will think/do the same?
k.crankedup said:
Having just watched the F1, I won’t spoil it for others who may not yet have seen/heard the result.
I agree it seems that everything is all to play for, although the EU could flounce and walk away from the proposals. Doing that would, imo, be a huge mistake both in financial and PR terms which will affect the remaining EU Countries as well as the U.K. Seems to me this is the last minute bid for serious discussions and agreements to be made. Wouldn’t like to place a single penny bet on an outcome for either side.
Why would the EU be flouncing?I agree it seems that everything is all to play for, although the EU could flounce and walk away from the proposals. Doing that would, imo, be a huge mistake both in financial and PR terms which will affect the remaining EU Countries as well as the U.K. Seems to me this is the last minute bid for serious discussions and agreements to be made. Wouldn’t like to place a single penny bet on an outcome for either side.
The proposal clearly doesn't fit with any of the current EU trade agreements, and because it will be a trade agreement it will need all EU27 to agree to it.
The EU offered what it knew we be acceptable. The UK has chosen not to take them up and proposed something else instead, which looks a hell of a lot like cherry picking which we have already been told we cannot do.
JagLover said:
Despite Remainer gloating
it is faux gloating, trying to find some little crumb of "we told you so" to cling on to. for some it will mitigate the huge shock referendum defeat brought when the reality they were in a large minority hit home. everything they knew was turned upside down by stupid old people. particularly galling for those in the process of various eu politics degrees and those teaching them i would imagine. that bright future leeching off the eu taxpayer has been taken away.they should see the positives, less commuting when working for your local council. none of that switching countries every month having to pack up your entire office and the ability to be open about what you do for a living at dinner parties without receiving derisory sneers
. these people are a tiny part of the remain vote and will hopefully be ignored in a similar fashion to the send them all home brigade.i am surprised at some of the posts today given the generally accepted position among many was "nothing is agreed until it is all agreed".
wc98 said:
i am surprised at some of the posts today given the generally accepted position among many was "nothing is agreed until it is all agreed".
That will still be the case - and now our own government is going in with a soft position that will get softened further before everything is agreed.Don't worry, it's good news
mx5nut said:
Tuna said:
Really? We're all going to have to live with the consequences. A bad Brexit is bad for everyone, regardless of how they voted
Do you think a bad Brexit would be worse than remaining? If you and you alone were given the choice between the two, which would it be?of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.
citizensm1th said:
don'tbesilly said:
sidicks said:
citizensm1th said:
Well i did my best to try to persuade my country not to damage itself. my country did not listen and decided to inflict damage to My future prospects and others like me. why on earth should i care about those who would happily damage my prospects to further their own? as the perceive it
What ‘rotten consequences’ are you personally facing as a direct result of Brexit?Anyone voting for May so she can then 'own' the consequences of it, so they can then boast on a car forum that she and others should accept their responsibilities for Brexit, probably had little In the way of any future prospects whatsoever, one would have to ask what prospects existed for him and before the referendum was even announced.
Exception being - " I voted for May in the GE so she and the Tories would 'own' Brexit', knowing I would suffer the consequences if it turns into the clusterf*ck I want it to be".
That's some boast to make on PH next April and in the ensuing years, your kids/grandkids will be proud of you when you show it to them.
Tip - ctr-p- and frame, they'll love it.
Tuna said:
citizensm1th said:
That is an interesting point, I wonder if Barnier is aware of that
You do understand that the 'fun to watch stuff' is a complete side show, and within the week, Barnier could push us into a complete, no-deal WTO exit?I really don't think you understand the consequences of this debate in the slightest, or quite what impact the proposed deal would have on your life if it were accepted.
now sway won't like a hard brexit but then he is not a fan of brexit light either.
There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.
The debate in government was held this week and May got her way with our one and only proposal to the EU ,nothing you or i say here will change that in the slightest we as a nation are now at the mercy of the EU.
If the EU accept it with negotiated changes to suit them we have fudgexit where no one is happy.
if they dont we are out on WTO with perhaps agreement on the non WTO stuff like the trillions of bank contracts and maybe agreement for UK aircraft and airports (sway might have a heart attack if this happens)
Or we go for slashers preferred check vote to see if we can forget the whole thing.
Take your pick i don't see any other choices
PurpleMoonlight said:
crankedup said:
Having just watched the F1, I won’t spoil it for others who may not yet have seen/heard the result.
I agree it seems that everything is all to play for, although the EU could flounce and walk away from the proposals. Doing that would, imo, be a huge mistake both in financial and PR terms which will affect the remaining EU Countries as well as the U.K. Seems to me this is the last minute bid for serious discussions and agreements to be made. Wouldn’t like to place a single penny bet on an outcome for either side.
Why would the EU be flouncing?I agree it seems that everything is all to play for, although the EU could flounce and walk away from the proposals. Doing that would, imo, be a huge mistake both in financial and PR terms which will affect the remaining EU Countries as well as the U.K. Seems to me this is the last minute bid for serious discussions and agreements to be made. Wouldn’t like to place a single penny bet on an outcome for either side.
The proposal clearly doesn't fit with any of the current EU trade agreements, and because it will be a trade agreement it will need all EU27 to agree to it.
The EU offered what it knew we be acceptable. The UK has chosen not to take them up and proposed something else instead, which looks a hell of a lot like cherry picking which we have already been told we cannot do.
It’s a case of the EU bolstering it’s political position of dissuading other Member Countries from following the U.K. Seems to me that the EU stance of protectionism is more important to itself than moderating it’s policies, which it has had ample opportunity over the past 20 years.
citizensm1th said:
I have said before on here half in half out brexit is not brexit if we leave(and we are leaving) a "hard" brexit is the only way to satisfy the brexiteers in or out take your choice and the country has we are out.
now sway won't like a hard brexit but then he is not a fan of brexit light either.
There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.
The debate in government was held this week and May got her way with our one and only proposal to the EU ,nothing you or i say here will change that in the slightest we as a nation are now at the mercy of the EU.
If the EU accept it with negotiated changes to suit them we have fudgexit where no one is happy.
if they dont we are out on WTO with perhaps agreement on the non WTO stuff like the trillions of bank contracts and maybe agreement for UK aircraft and airports (sway might have a heart attack if this happens)
Or we go for slashers preferred check vote to see if we can forget the whole thing.
Take your pick i don't see any other choices
The last one won’t be happening, so you can remove that from your list of ‘choices’.now sway won't like a hard brexit but then he is not a fan of brexit light either.
There are no consequences to this debate it is a debate on a poxy little car forum with no influence on HMG what so ever.
The debate in government was held this week and May got her way with our one and only proposal to the EU ,nothing you or i say here will change that in the slightest we as a nation are now at the mercy of the EU.
If the EU accept it with negotiated changes to suit them we have fudgexit where no one is happy.
if they dont we are out on WTO with perhaps agreement on the non WTO stuff like the trillions of bank contracts and maybe agreement for UK aircraft and airports (sway might have a heart attack if this happens)
Or we go for slashers preferred check vote to see if we can forget the whole thing.
Take your pick i don't see any other choices
crankedup said:
It’s completely irrelevant, the U.K. is leaving the EU. The only question remaining is the T&C
of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.
You conveniently ignore that the Commission have taken their negotiating instructions from the EU27 heads of state.of the departure. From the EU perspective a ‘no deal’ will cement thier determination to hold the political experiment together, at huge cost to itself and the U.K. Of course the U.K. have chosen to leave, other EU Member Countries will be interested in the outcome for the U.K. and this is why the EU is being so entrenched in its position, fear of opening the EU exit gates.
davepoth said:
citizensm1th said:
davepoth said:
Whether or not it will annoy Rees-Mogg will not figure very highly in his thinking.
But will it figure high in his puppet masters thinking? i wonder if macron has a devilish sidecrankedup said:
I’ve posted as above and before I read your post.
It’s a case of the EU bolstering it’s political position of dissuading other Member Countries from following the U.K. Seems to me that the EU stance of protectionism is more important to itself than moderating it’s policies, which it has had ample opportunity over the past 20 years.
Nope, the EU27 are driving this. No dissuasion is necessary.It’s a case of the EU bolstering it’s political position of dissuading other Member Countries from following the U.K. Seems to me that the EU stance of protectionism is more important to itself than moderating it’s policies, which it has had ample opportunity over the past 20 years.
mx5nut said:
Tuna said:
Really? We're all going to have to live with the consequences. A bad Brexit is bad for everyone, regardless of how they voted
Do you think a bad Brexit would be worse than remaining? If you and you alone were given the choice between the two, which would it be?We are leaving - so the choice is 'bad' brexit, or 'make the most of it' brexit. Those are the only choices we actually have. Which would you choose (assuming the government was competent enough to deliver it)?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff