US Elections 2012 Obama v Romney Official Thread

[stevejh]

We seem to have gone off at a tangent talking about Israel. My original question was really asking whether Obama's response to the murders in Libya could impact on the election. Will strong words be enough for the majority in the US or will he have to come up with some sort of military response?

[TheHeretic]

What response? Go after the people that did it? Go after the leaders? What should the appropriate 'keep the people happy' response be?

[stevejh]

TheHeretic said:

What response? Go after the people that did it? Go after the leaders? What should the appropriate 'keep the people happy' response be?

Exactly. That was my question. There will be a lot of Americans who will be expecting their President to do something decisive so what can he do? My point really is that, particularly in the run up to the election, it must be a huge dilemma for him and if he gets it wrong could it effect the election result?

[TheHeretic]

Well, not fussed about who it keeps happy, I'm just wondering who the target should be?

[davepoth]

Obama's response is so far not an issue. Romney on the other hand seems to have gaffed again.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/0...

If this campaign is about to become a bit more about foreign policy, it seems he has a bit of a problem.

[stevejh]

TheHeretic said:

Well, not fussed about who it keeps happy, I'm just wondering who the target should be?

Well, Osama Bin Laden obviously ....

[TheHeretic]

stevejh said:

Well, Osama Bin Laden obviously ....

? I thought it was a feasible point. Retaliating against an angry mob is done how?

[davepoth]

TheHeretic said:

? I thought it was a feasible point. Retaliating against an angry mob is done how?

Angry mobs don't carry RPGs around with them "just in case".

[TheHeretic]

davepoth said:

TheHeretic said:

? I thought it was a feasible point. Retaliating against an angry mob is done how?

Angry mobs don't carry RPGs around with them "just in case".

So I ask again, who will you go after? A token strike against something may well appease the voters, but I'm not sure they will actually be getting those who committed the crime.

[rohrl]

davepoth said:

Angry mobs don't carry RPGs around with them "just in case".

Not in the UK they don't but Libya is awash with all sorts of weaponry after the fighting last year. There'll be RPGs and heavy machine guns a phone call away all over the place as well as an AK-47 under the bed in plenty of houses.

[stevejh]

TheHeretic said:

stevejh said:

Well, Osama Bin Laden obviously ....

? I thought it was a feasible point. Retaliating against an angry mob is done how?

I suppose it depends on who you blame for the murders. There are reports that Al Quaeda started organising the protests some time ago to coincide with the anniversary of 9/11 but their leadership is already targeted by the US and, as you say, retaliating against an angry mob is not really an option.

[unrepentant]

davepoth said:

Obama's response is so far not an issue. Romney on the other hand seems to have gaffed again.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/0...

If this campaign is about to become a bit more about foreign policy, it seems he has a bit of a problem.

Romney's actions over the past 24 hours have just served to underline how utterly unfit for office he is. I have not heard a single person agree with his ludicrous statement and many republicans have distanced themselves from it. For a candidate to try and use a national tragedy for political advanatage is appalling and anyone who claims to support this idiot should be embarrassed.

A senior Romney aide, Dan Senor is on CNN right now trying to spin what his boss said and wiggling like a fish on a hook.

[TheHeretic]

I posted this elsewhere, but thought it was worth putting here as well. Fox being classy over 'God' and Obama.

http://youtu.be/24nHGTaqd1s

[unrepentant]

unrepentant said:

stevejh said:

unrepentant said:

CNN poll out tonight has moved from tie to Obama by 6.

Looks like the dems got a bigger than expected lift from the conventions. We shouldn't really be surprised. As well as a strong speech by the President we also had great inspirational speeches by Castro, Warren, Villaraigosa, Clinton, Baldwin and many others that strongly endorsed Obama and his policies. Contrast that with a lacklustre RNC where key speakers like Christie and Rubio hardly mentioned Romney and used their speeches purely to position themselves for 2016!

Perhaps it would be better to wait for a poll that isn't skewed towards the Democrats before jumping to conclusions. CNN say the sampling was 50/45/5 Democrats/Republicans/Independents so a 6% Democrat lead isn't too surprising.

LOL. The Rush Limbaugh logic. Polls don't count if a majority of people polled would vote for the other side. You won't find an independent poll that randomly polls a selection of people and finds that 50% are republicans. If you do be very suspicious because 50% of Americans are not republicans. 50/45/5 in favour of the democrats probably pretty accurately reflects the voting intentions of the country right now. Expect the 45 to fall..

Here you go. Yet another poll showing Obama up by 5 points. This time it's from those liberal pinkos at FOX News! Rotten commie bds with their pro Obama rigged polls.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/fox-new...

[rohrl]

unrepentant said:

Here you go. Yet another poll showing Obama up by 5 points. This time it's from those liberal pinkos at FOX News! Rotten commie bds with their pro Obama rigged polls.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/09/12/fox-new...

Can't be true. I saw Karl Rove explain it yesterday and it turns out that polls which put Obama ahead have been asking the wrong people. The presenter agreed with him too so he must be right. Fair and balanced.

[unrepentant]

The FOX poll is interesting actually. It must have been slanted towards republicans as it showed Obama up by only +89 with African American voters and we all know he's actually polling close to 100% in that demographic everywhere else.

Other interesting findings from the FOX poll are that;

Obama is +15 points when asked who voters trust on foreign policy
Obama is +3 points on the economy
Obama is +14 points on education
Obama is +11 when asked who is more honest
Obama is +10 points when asked who would be a steady leader
Obama is +7 points on experience
Obama is +7 points amongst voters who think that the economy is the biggest issue
Obama is +7 points when voters are asked if the country is going in the right direction
Obama is +8 points on handling of terrorism
Obama is +9 points on healthcare
Obama is +14 points with women voters

All that from a poll from a far right leaning organisation speaks volumes.

[davepoth]

TheHeretic said:

So I ask again, who will you go after? A token strike against something may well appease the voters, but I'm not sure they will actually be getting those who committed the crime.

And this is why keeping a cool head is important. They likely won't be found quickly, and the first people they find almost certainly won't be the right people. When Obama says he'll find the people, I almost believe him.

rohrl said:

Not in the UK they don't but Libya is awash with all sorts of weaponry after the fighting last year. There'll be RPGs and heavy machine guns a phone call away all over the place as well as an AK-47 under the bed in plenty of houses.

Lots of guns yes, but the centre of Benghazi was never a warzone like the rest of the country. And while people may well have an AK close to hand, RPGs suggest that someone thought there was something to be gained from blowing up the embassy rather than just a mindless riot.

[stevejh]

Guam said:

Interesting what Rebalancing does to those results in the Fox Poll

Not what the hype would have you believe



http://polls2012.blogspot.co.uk/

So that Fox News poll is actually showing a bias in favour of Obama. I always thought Fox were biased.

In all seriousness it just shows how little value you can attribute to these polls until the poll that really counts in November.

[unrepentant]

stevejh said:

So that Fox News poll is actually showing a bias in favour of Obama. I always thought Fox were biased.

In all seriousness it just shows how little value you can attribute to these polls until the poll that really counts in November.

Yeah FOX are staunchly pro Obama.

The polls all show one trend - Obama is pulling away, the RCP poll page is now all blue. Given Romney's lamentable performance over the past 2 days I would expect to see the margin increase. He's looking more like a desperate man every day and the right wing commentators have already begun to try and tell their followers that they need to ignore Romney and use their vote as a vote against Obama, rather than a vote for the GOP candidate.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2012/presi...

[unrepentant]

Some of us look at the polls from respected pollsters and listen to respected commentators, some choose to grasp at straws and cling to spurious right wing blogs for some reason. For those of us actually iving in the US there is no doubt that Obama is ahead and has the momentum. That may change but given the quality of the republican nominee it is looking increasingly unlikely.