War with Russia
Discussion
Octoposse said:
Cobnapint said:
It's not 'self determination' though is it?
Is the determination of Putin and his armed forces. Nobody in Crimea seemed that bothered about being under Russian control until Putin told them that's what they wanted.
The majority of people who lived there were Russian, wanted to be Russian, regarded themselves as Russian, and regarded the concept that they weren't Russian as a borderline (pun intended) absurdity. Is the determination of Putin and his armed forces. Nobody in Crimea seemed that bothered about being under Russian control until Putin told them that's what they wanted.
True, people put up with the absurdity, which didn't much effect their everyday lives, particularly if they lived in Sevastopol and spoke Russian. But it was a balancing act that couldn't survive regime change in Kiev and the political and financial intervention of the US, EU and others.
Crimea is now (again) part of Russia, as much as Texas is part of the US, or Tibet part of China. Rightly or wrong - evidently, I'd go with rightly, but that's a pretty academic argument that isn't particularly relevant either way.
mko9 said:
Octoposse said:
Cobnapint said:
It's not 'self determination' though is it?
Is the determination of Putin and his armed forces. Nobody in Crimea seemed that bothered about being under Russian control until Putin told them that's what they wanted.
The majority of people who lived there were Russian, wanted to be Russian, regarded themselves as Russian, and regarded the concept that they weren't Russian as a borderline (pun intended) absurdity. Is the determination of Putin and his armed forces. Nobody in Crimea seemed that bothered about being under Russian control until Putin told them that's what they wanted.
True, people put up with the absurdity, which didn't much effect their everyday lives, particularly if they lived in Sevastopol and spoke Russian. But it was a balancing act that couldn't survive regime change in Kiev and the political and financial intervention of the US, EU and others.
Crimea is now (again) part of Russia, as much as Texas is part of the US, or Tibet part of China. Rightly or wrong - evidently, I'd go with rightly, but that's a pretty academic argument that isn't particularly relevant either way.
mko9 said:
If they want to be Russian, there is a whole country called Russia that they can move to.
That's not quite the line we took vis-a-vis the Albanians in Kosovo. I'd hazard a guess that nor indeed was that approach envisaged in the founding principles of the United Nations where they talk about 'Self Determination of Peoples'.
DMN said:
The US strike was retaliation for a Russian backed attack on a US base:https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-16...
DMN said:
DMN said:
The US strike was retaliation for a Russian backed attack on a US base:https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-02-16...
Yipper said:
This has been chattered about in defence circles for months. It's why Trump has recently been talking up the US arsenal.
When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
Yeah because we have no way of turning China and Russia into molten slag have we... Ever heard of MAD ? When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
Yipper said:
This has been chattered about in defence circles for months. It's why Trump has recently been talking up the US arsenal.
When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
nah, with current state of tech all big nuclear powers can fend off all other countries combined together if neededWhen Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
nobody wants to risk his country obliterated
Narcisus said:
Yipper said:
This has been chattered about in defence circles for months. It's why Trump has recently been talking up the US arsenal.
When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
Yeah because we have no way of turning China and Russia into molten slag have we... Ever heard of MAD ? When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
frankenstein12 said:
Technically MAD only works when there is an equilibrium. If as Russia claim their missile can defeat any defence system then they have a missile that is better than anything anyone else has and that combined with their S-400 air defence system which could shoot down any incoming missiles ALA Iron Dome in Isreal means that Russia have the upper weapons hand as they have less to lose..
As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
umm S-400 and even S-500 have very low chances of taking down a modern ICBM, antiballistic technology(both american and russian) is so complicated and unreliable and it will stay such for many years, this Putin talk is all about upcoming elections he knows very well it's all just bs to get more votes As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
frankenstein12 said:
Technically MAD only works when there is an equilibrium. If as Russia claim their missile can defeat any defence system then they have a missile that is better than anything anyone else has and that combined with their S-400 air defence system which could shoot down any incoming missiles ALA Iron Dome in Isreal means that Russia have the upper weapons hand as they have less to lose..
As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
Read the translation of Putin’s speech on the Kremlin website. He says that, essentially, he’s been telling the US for years that Russia will develop weapons if the USA continues with its nuclear defence programme after withdrawing from the Anti- ballistic Missile Treaty.As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
It sounds like he may be posturing to regain a seat at the bargaining table...but who knows?
http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/56957
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