War with Russia
Discussion
AreOut said:
frankenstein12 said:
Technically MAD only works when there is an equilibrium. If as Russia claim their missile can defeat any defence system then they have a missile that is better than anything anyone else has and that combined with their S-400 air defence system which could shoot down any incoming missiles ALA Iron Dome in Isreal means that Russia have the upper weapons hand as they have less to lose..
As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
umm S-400 and even S-500 have very low chances of taking down a modern ICBM, antiballistic technology(both american and russian) is so complicated and unreliable and it will stay such for many years, this Putin talk is all about upcoming elections he knows very well it's all just bs to get more votes As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
Narcisus said:
Yipper said:
This has been chattered about in defence circles for months. It's why Trump has recently been talking up the US arsenal.
When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
Yeah because we have no way of turning China and Russia into molten slag have we... Ever heard of MAD ? When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
frankenstein12 said:
Narcisus said:
Yipper said:
This has been chattered about in defence circles for months. It's why Trump has recently been talking up the US arsenal.
When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
Yeah because we have no way of turning China and Russia into molten slag have we... Ever heard of MAD ? When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
As such Russia could use that threat against the US as a bargaining chip.
Narcisus said:
Yipper said:
This has been chattered about in defence circles for months. It's why Trump has recently been talking up the US arsenal.
When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
Yeah because we have no way of turning China and Russia into molten slag have we... Ever heard of MAD ? When Russia and China team up in a few decades, we're f*cked.
AreOut said:
umm S-400 and even S-500 have very low chances of taking down a modern ICBM, antiballistic technology(both american and russian) is so complicated and unreliable and it will stay such for many years, this Putin talk is all about upcoming elections he knows very well it's all just bs to get more votes
With the way Russian politics work though, I don't think Putin needs to chase votes (which is the worrying thing). The other thing to think about is that MAD only works if both sides have equal capability, this is clearly understood and any such weapon shifts that balance. The other thing both sides need is stable leadership, this is not so clear at the moment on either side. As we know, in the US they currently have a leader who really does think he's the best thing ever and will not do anything to back down or lose face in an argument and I fear Putin is equally as arrogant, though probably is smarter.I really think that we are about to enter a new Cold War type era, unfortunately I think that Russia is in a far better position to do what's necessary to win the financial (read as defence expenditure) battle to win this one than they were as the USSR. We only "won" the last Cold War because the USSR couldn't keep up with NATO's capability and spending, we basically out spent them, matching their numbers in many respects but with better kit. I don't think the west has the will politically to spend what may be required to keep up with Russian development. Granted, most of what Russia buys (historically) has been a bit s
t, but they buy lots of it.AshVX220 said:
AreOut said:
umm S-400 and even S-500 have very low chances of taking down a modern ICBM, antiballistic technology(both american and russian) is so complicated and unreliable and it will stay such for many years, this Putin talk is all about upcoming elections he knows very well it's all just bs to get more votes
With the way Russian politics work though, I don't think Putin needs to chase votes (which is the worrying thing). The other thing to think about is that MAD only works if both sides have equal capability, this is clearly understood and any such weapon shifts that balance. The other thing both sides need is stable leadership, this is not so clear at the moment on either side. As we know, in the US they currently have a leader who really does think he's the best thing ever and will not do anything to back down or lose face in an argument and I fear Putin is equally as arrogant, though probably is smarter.I really think that we are about to enter a new Cold War type era, unfortunately I think that Russia is in a far better position to do what's necessary to win the financial (read as defence expenditure) battle to win this one than they were as the USSR. We only "won" the last Cold War because the USSR couldn't keep up with NATO's capability and spending, we basically out spent them, matching their numbers in many respects but with better kit. I don't think the west has the will politically to spend what may be required to keep up with Russian development. Granted, most of what Russia buys (historically) has been a bit s
t, but they buy lots of it.They on the other hand have been the subject of some very one sided and unpleasant behaviour by the US and EU for a number of years now so I am not in the least surprised by their latest news or any aggresive positions they are taking with anything.
frankenstein12 said:
Personally i dont consider Russia to be that much of a threat to any of us. They have shown no real desire nor aspirations towards globalism or antogonism towards any other countries.
They on the other hand have been the subject of some very one sided and unpleasant behaviour by the US and EU for a number of years now so I am not in the least surprised by their latest news or any aggresive positions they are taking with anything.
Lol.They on the other hand have been the subject of some very one sided and unpleasant behaviour by the US and EU for a number of years now so I am not in the least surprised by their latest news or any aggresive positions they are taking with anything.
Here we go......
AshVX220 said:
...I think that Russia is in a far better position to do what's necessary to win the financial (read as defence expenditure) battle to win this one than they were as the USSR. We only "won" the last Cold War because the USSR couldn't keep up with NATO's capability and spending, we basically out spent them, matching their numbers in many respects but with better kit. I don't think the west has the will politically to spend what may be required to keep up with Russian development. Granted, most of what Russia buys (historically) has been a bit st, but they buy lots of it.
Really?t, but they buy lots of it.2016
1st United States 611.2 billion spending 3.3%gdp
3rd Russia 69.2 billion spending 5.3%gdp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
IMF 2016
1 United States 19,362,12
12 Russia 1,469,341
Halb said:
AshVX220 said:
...I think that Russia is in a far better position to do what's necessary to win the financial (read as defence expenditure) battle to win this one than they were as the USSR. We only "won" the last Cold War because the USSR couldn't keep up with NATO's capability and spending, we basically out spent them, matching their numbers in many respects but with better kit. I don't think the west has the will politically to spend what may be required to keep up with Russian development. Granted, most of what Russia buys (historically) has been a bit st, but they buy lots of it.
Really?t, but they buy lots of it.2016
1st United States 611.2 billion spending 3.3%gdp
3rd Russia 69.2 billion spending 5.3%gdp
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by...
IMF 2016
1 United States 19,362,12
12 Russia 1,469,341
This weekend might be a good time for them to invade!
All they need is some 4x4's with winter tyres to dominate the roads, some Russian train drivers to commandeer our rail network (our train lines are all closing down when it gets dark due to a little bit of snow) and then if they ship over some container loads of gas to bribe and befriend the local population once our gas supply all runs out on Monday = job done!
All they need is some 4x4's with winter tyres to dominate the roads, some Russian train drivers to commandeer our rail network (our train lines are all closing down when it gets dark due to a little bit of snow) and then if they ship over some container loads of gas to bribe and befriend the local population once our gas supply all runs out on Monday = job done!
frankenstein12 said:
I would have thought the principles would all be much the same except a long range launched projectile would present a much bigger and easier target to hit for the s-400/500?
ICBM reentry speed is around 4 miles per second, there is a good amount of luck needed to hit that DMN said:
Either a troll or a bot.
because he has his own opinion?jmorgan said:
Yeah, butter would not melt in their mouth.
Not saying they are saintly or even sane just that in the grand scheme of things there are groups or countries we have a lot more to worry about from. North Korea. Iran. Possibly China?? Etc. All of whom have shown rather a lack of concern for humanity or sanity.frankenstein12 said:
jmorgan said:
Yeah, butter would not melt in their mouth.
Not saying they are saintly or even sane just that in the grand scheme of things there are groups or countries we have a lot more to worry about from. North Korea. Iran. Possibly China?? Etc. All of whom have shown rather a lack of concern for humanity or sanity.rallycross said:
This weekend might be a good time for them to invade!
All they need is some 4x4's with winter tyres to dominate the roads, some Russian train drivers to commandeer our rail network (our train lines are all closing down when it gets dark due to a little bit of snow) and then if they ship over some container loads of gas to bribe and befriend the local population once our gas supply all runs out on Monday = job done!
Maybe they have....ZAARP?!?! All they need is some 4x4's with winter tyres to dominate the roads, some Russian train drivers to commandeer our rail network (our train lines are all closing down when it gets dark due to a little bit of snow) and then if they ship over some container loads of gas to bribe and befriend the local population once our gas supply all runs out on Monday = job done!
mko9 said:
Other than the obvious examples of Georgia and the Ukraine. And possibly countries like Moldova in the future.
Well those areas aren't exactly clean of Machiavellian machinations on behalf of western meddling.frankenstein12 said:
Not saying they are saintly or even sane just that in the grand scheme of things there are groups or countries we have a lot more to worry about from. North Korea. Iran. Possibly China?? Etc. All of whom have shown rather a lack of concern for humanity or sanity.
Well Russia is taking steps backwards with it's social direction, it looks like Turkey writ colossal. A horrible backward place wanting to go back to some fantasy time (Trump popped into my head there, but then I am watching cartoon president) wrapped in a religious cloak. But then does it look worse than China and the other places because we can see a lot that goes on inside Russia as it's a proto-democracy with one foot in the West. Where China is simply closed off.But every nation has shown disregard for humanity at some point.
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