2nd Referendum please - I don't like how that one panned out
Discussion
johnxjsc1985 said:
Soov535 said:
FTSE up 2.5% today.
you will get nowhere with that sort of attitude. So now they have all stopped stamping their feet the pound is up on the $ and the Euro too.
lostkiwi said:
Dr Jekyll said:
Suppose the UK govt did decide to forget about leaving, what do you think the EU would do? Stay frozen exactly at the status quo? No they would continue the process of integration. charge us millions more, and eliminate our opt outs.
The government already has the mandate to leave. That would hang over Brussels in any negotiations.
(Jeez I'm starting to sound like a Brexiter!)
That's an unfortunate thing to happen...hope you feel better soon
Your point is one I agree with and in a previous post or two I've mentioned that whatever chicanery our politicians may try, though I think it's unlikely, the referendum outcome has changed the nature of EU-UK relations fundamentally. Hence the statement today, in repeat mode, from Tusk that the EU stands ready to start divorce proceedings with the UK but cannot do anything until the UK invokes A50, and CMD isn't rushing in. At the moment they are in effect impotent more than important and it's a new feeling for them. They need to get accustomed to it.
I don't think we'll end up leaving. The government and the city don't want it. They're the ones calling the shots. I expect we'll get a new deal and then another referendum. Or some remain party will come along and win the election. There's no real appetite for brexit, just a small majority vote. It should really have been 60 or 75% required for such a big change.
el stovey said:
I don't think we'll end up leaving. The government and the city don't want it. They're the ones calling the shots. I expect we'll get a new deal and then another referendum. Or some remain party will come along and win the election. There's no real appetite for brexit, just a small majority vote. It should really have been 60 or 75% required for such a big change.
That's not how it works.el stovey said:
I don't think we'll end up leaving. The government and the city don't want it. They're the ones calling the shots. I expect we'll get a new deal and then another referendum. Or some remain party will come along and win the election. There's no real appetite for brexit, just a small majority vote. It should really have been 60 or 75% required for such a big change.
I think you will find that it's about 18 million people who have already called the shots. Time to get over it and all put together.Robertj21a said:
I think you will find that it's about 18 million people who have already called the shots. Time to get over it and all put together.
I don't think it will happen. It's a small margin and nobody from any of the main parties wants it. The referendum won't be overturned, something else will come along that results in us remaining and people will vote for that instead. To those saying that the government should simply ignore the will of the people, what do you think of countries who routinely did this? Say apartheid South Africa, or the USSR. Is that really something you want to copy in Britain? Is that the best way to peace, prosperity and all the other claimed benefits of the EU that generally didn't work out so well elsewhere?
el stovey said:
I don't think it will happen. It's a small margin and nobody from any of the main parties wants it. The referendum won't be overturned, something else will come along that results in us remaining and people will vote for that instead.
Fair enough, everybody has an opinion. I hope the 18m understand.el stovey said:
I don't think we'll end up leaving. The government and the city don't want it. They're the ones calling the shots. I expect we'll get a new deal and then another referendum. Or some remain party will come along and win the election. There's no real appetite for brexit, just a small majority vote. It should really have been 60 or 75% required for such a big change.
17m voted for it? Would you have said the same thing if it ended up 48/52 instead of 52/48? Tbf I'm astounded it even got close let alone a win, the inertia that needs to be overcome for people to choose to do something different mustn't be underestimated and just goes to show the real strength of feeling behind it imho. Astonishing to think that the remain crowd hope to to simply brush it all under the carpet! Move on, move on, nothing to see here ...TX.
WinstonWolf said:
johnxjsc1985 said:
Soov535 said:
FTSE up 2.5% today.
you will get nowhere with that sort of attitude. So now they have all stopped stamping their feet the pound is up on the $ and the Euro too.
If the government aren't going to introduce an immigration points system and keep free movement due to the single market... what's the point in leaving the EU?
That is not as I understand what the leave side voted for. The NHS spending pledge seems to have all but vanished aswell!?
As others have said, this was just too big and complex an issue for the man on the street to fully digest and understand the consequences. (Myself included!)
That is not as I understand what the leave side voted for. The NHS spending pledge seems to have all but vanished aswell!?
As others have said, this was just too big and complex an issue for the man on the street to fully digest and understand the consequences. (Myself included!)
el stovey said:
turbobloke said:
That's not how it works.
Like the Irish Lisbon treaty? Robertj21a said:
...18 million people who have already called the shots. Time to get over it and all put together.
The EU sees it that way and as yet there's no sign that there's any appetite to ride roughshod over the referendum result in Westminster, the likes of Lammy aside.amgmcqueen said:
If the government aren't going to introduce an immigration points system and keep free movement due to the single market... what's the point in leaving the EU?
That is not as I understand what the leave side voted for. The NHS spending pledge seems to have all but vanished aswell!?
As others have said, this was just too big and complex an issue for the man on the street to fully digest and understand the consequences. (Myself included!)
The Leave side voted for leaving the EU, as simple as that. That is not as I understand what the leave side voted for. The NHS spending pledge seems to have all but vanished aswell!?
As others have said, this was just too big and complex an issue for the man on the street to fully digest and understand the consequences. (Myself included!)
The point of leaving the EU is to escape EU regulations and be freed up to trade as we wish with the rest of the world without EU imposed tariffs. If EU market access means accepting free movement that's fine by me, but at least there is a choice.
Dr Jekyll said:
amgmcqueen said:
If the government aren't going to introduce an immigration points system and keep free movement due to the single market... what's the point in leaving the EU?
That is not as I understand what the leave side voted for. The NHS spending pledge seems to have all but vanished aswell!?
As others have said, this was just too big and complex an issue for the man on the street to fully digest and understand the consequences. (Myself included!)
The Leave side voted for leaving the EU, as simple as that. That is not as I understand what the leave side voted for. The NHS spending pledge seems to have all but vanished aswell!?
As others have said, this was just too big and complex an issue for the man on the street to fully digest and understand the consequences. (Myself included!)
The point of leaving the EU is to escape EU regulations and be freed up to trade as we wish with the rest of the world without EU imposed tariffs. If EU market access means accepting free movement that's fine by me, but at least there is a choice.
They wanted this to be substantially cut and an Australian points style system be introduced.
If we remain part of the single market this will not happen! So people were duped into voting for a blatant lie?
amgmcqueen said:
I thought the main issue for leave voters was immigration?
Where did you read that it was the main issue? I'd be interested to see the breakdown. Who did the survey? Any chance of a link?amgmcqueen said:
They wanted this to be substantially cut and an Australian points style system be introduced.
What sort of numbers are we talking about re:substantially? I can't find anything written down. 'Substantially' seems quite vast. How large a proportion are we talking?amgmcqueen said:
If we remain part of the single market this will not happen! So people were duped into voting for a blatant lie?
It'd help a lot if you could post the facts on which you're basing your opinion that people were duped. The whole referendum has been severely lacking in facts.amgmcqueen said:
I thought the main issue for leave voters was immigration?
They wanted this to be substantially cut and an Australian points style system be introduced.
If we remain part of the single market this will not happen! So people were duped into voting for a blatant lie?
There was a suggestion that a points system might be introduced, but this was not what was voted on. This was a referendum not an election. They wanted this to be substantially cut and an Australian points style system be introduced.
If we remain part of the single market this will not happen! So people were duped into voting for a blatant lie?
Dr Jekyll said:
amgmcqueen said:
I thought the main issue for leave voters was immigration?
They wanted this to be substantially cut and an Australian points style system be introduced.
If we remain part of the single market this will not happen! So people were duped into voting for a blatant lie?
There was a suggestion that a points system might be introduced, but this was not what was voted on. This was a referendum not an election. They wanted this to be substantially cut and an Australian points style system be introduced.
If we remain part of the single market this will not happen! So people were duped into voting for a blatant lie?
That's why putting it the question to a binary referendum makes no sence. The country voted to leave the EU, narrowly, so what does that mean?
There's going to be a lot of very pissed off people kicking around after this. No one will be happy.
jonnyb said:
The problem is that "leaving the EU"' is open to huge interpretation. For some leavers it entails leaving the European project in its entirety. No free trade agreement, no free movement of people. Pulling up the drawbridge and sticking 2 fingers up at everyone. For others it means removing ourselves from some EU laws, and the European Parliament, but keeping free trade, and open boarders. And then there's everyone in between.
That's why putting it the question to a binary referendum makes no sence. The country voted to leave the EU, narrowly, so what does that mean?
There's going to be a lot of very pissed off people kicking around after this. No one will be happy.
So business as usual then That's why putting it the question to a binary referendum makes no sence. The country voted to leave the EU, narrowly, so what does that mean?
There's going to be a lot of very pissed off people kicking around after this. No one will be happy.
jonnyb said:
The problem is that "leaving the EU"' is open to huge interpretation. For some leavers it entails leaving the European project in its entirety. No free trade agreement, no free movement of people. Pulling up the drawbridge and sticking 2 fingers up at everyone. For others it means removing ourselves from some EU laws, and the European Parliament, but keeping free trade, and open boarders. And then there's everyone in between.
That's why putting it the question to a binary referendum makes no sence. The country voted to leave the EU, narrowly, so what does that mean?
There's going to be a lot of very pissed off people kicking around after this. No one will be happy.
What about the equally binary referendum on the same question back in 1975? Did that not make sense or is that different because you got the result you wanted?That's why putting it the question to a binary referendum makes no sence. The country voted to leave the EU, narrowly, so what does that mean?
There's going to be a lot of very pissed off people kicking around after this. No one will be happy.
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