How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 10)
Discussion
gooner1 said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: I'm just trying to imagine the reaction if a journalist discovered that George Soros was providing Jean-Claude Juncker £400K a years worth of housing and associated services that hadn't been declared and Juncker refused to comment other than that it was entirely legal and he was stepping down from the EU soon.
I'm going to guess it wouldn't be quite the same as when it's Aaron Banks and our Nigel.
No need to imagine some of the above.I'm going to guess it wouldn't be quite the same as when it's Aaron Banks and our Nigel.
EU expenses have been ruled to be kept secret from the public, by the ECJ, I believe.
But it isn't somehow right or virtuous when it's Nigel doing it.
I think Tony summed it up, most people who will vote for him simply don't care what he says or does because he'll give them what they want.
As I said maybe I'm idealistic but I think that's so disappointing.
christian-ohtc3 said:
FiF said:
Meanwhile in a Gallup International survey across the EU27 nations, in a question what to do if the UK parliament fails to ratify May's deal, 52% of respondents said the EU should renegotiate the deal, 34% said it should not.
In Remain land that means the correct decision is not to renegotiate as it's not a binding vote, am I doing this right?
In 1975 only 43% of the electorate voted to remain in the EEC using remain land logic that result should be void as well.In Remain land that means the correct decision is not to renegotiate as it's not a binding vote, am I doing this right?
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: If that's true then it is, of course, wrong.
But it isn't somehow right or virtuous when it's Nigel doing it.
I think Tony summed it up, most people who will vote for him simply don't care what he says or does because he'll give them what they want.
As I said maybe I'm idealistic but I think that's so disappointing.
Sooooo...people should vote for the party that ISN'T going to give them what they want? But it isn't somehow right or virtuous when it's Nigel doing it.
I think Tony summed it up, most people who will vote for him simply don't care what he says or does because he'll give them what they want.
As I said maybe I'm idealistic but I think that's so disappointing.
It's a novel approach but I doubt it will take off. Perhaps politicians could take heed of public opinion on a subject....they could run a really big opinion poll on a subject for example, and then tailor their offer to suit?
I mean that would make more sense than complaining about someone coming along and taking your support by offering people what they want whilst refusing to offer the same yourself?
Randy Winkman said:
A balanced view, I think. 
I appreciate we are in a position where there was a legitimate vote and "leave" won. It would be hard not to go through with that in a democracy. But I don't like the hear the suggestion that "the people" voted for Brexit or that Brexit is "the will of the people" when the vote was so close and fewer than half of the population and way less than half of the total population voted for it.
Perhaps all those who didn't vote in the referendum should have considered doing so !! I appreciate we are in a position where there was a legitimate vote and "leave" won. It would be hard not to go through with that in a democracy. But I don't like the hear the suggestion that "the people" voted for Brexit or that Brexit is "the will of the people" when the vote was so close and fewer than half of the population and way less than half of the total population voted for it.The 'will of the people' can only ever apply to that part of the electorate that can be bothered to indicate their preference. No point in whingeing after the event if they hadn't voted.
Toaster said:
Statistically the man is correct with a population off around 65 million, Yes 17.5 did vote to leave some of which were protest votes 16.14 million votes wanted to remain so it is not a landslide as the was mentioned. So what to do....the government negotiates a deal or deals then go back to the people and say OK guys and girls this is what we can do these are the risks and benefits would you like option A B or C ?
The government did exactly this last time, trouble was they massively overplayed the risks and downplayed the benefits. After we voted to leave they were comprehensively found out. Why would anybody believe a word they said this time? Gilbertron said:
Sooooo...people should vote for the party that ISN'T going to give them what they want?
It's a novel approach but I doubt it will take off. Perhaps politicians could take heed of public opinion on a subject....they could run a really big opinion poll on a subject for example, and then tailor their offer to suit?
I mean that would make more sense than complaining about someone coming along and taking your support by offering people what they want whilst refusing to offer the same yourself?
I get that.It's a novel approach but I doubt it will take off. Perhaps politicians could take heed of public opinion on a subject....they could run a really big opinion poll on a subject for example, and then tailor their offer to suit?
I mean that would make more sense than complaining about someone coming along and taking your support by offering people what they want whilst refusing to offer the same yourself?
And of course someone should represent your wishes.
I'm afraid I just struggle with the idea that the only option is that man.
The mainstream parties have nobody but themselves to blame but in 2019 it's pathetic that Farage is seen as the answer.
Just hold your nose and don't ask too many questions eh!
pgh said:
I want the outcome of the referendum to be implemented. I believe not doing so will cause long lasting and untold damage to the UK through undermining the contract of democracy.
On this basis. I’d happily vote on Thursday for an MEP who’s sole stated aim is to go to Brussels and Strasbourg and set off the fire alarm every day.
It is being implemented so you have nothing to worry about.On this basis. I’d happily vote on Thursday for an MEP who’s sole stated aim is to go to Brussels and Strasbourg and set off the fire alarm every day.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: If that's true then it is, of course, wrong.
But it isn't somehow right or virtuous when it's Nigel doing it.
I think Tony summed it up, most people who will vote for him simply don't care what he says or does because he'll give them what they want.
As I said maybe I'm idealistic but I think that's so disappointing.
It's disappointing that a Party has had to be formed because those entrusted toBut it isn't somehow right or virtuous when it's Nigel doing it.
I think Tony summed it up, most people who will vote for him simply don't care what he says or does because he'll give them what they want.
As I said maybe I'm idealistic but I think that's so disappointing.
carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving f
kery.Squiddly Diddly said:
pgh said:
I want the outcome of the referendum to be implemented. I believe not doing so will cause long lasting and untold damage to the UK through undermining the contract of democracy.
On this basis. I’d happily vote on Thursday for an MEP who’s sole stated aim is to go to Brussels and Strasbourg and set off the fire alarm every day.
It is being implemented so you have nothing to worry about.On this basis. I’d happily vote on Thursday for an MEP who’s sole stated aim is to go to Brussels and Strasbourg and set off the fire alarm every day.
gooner1 said:
It's disappointing that a Party has had to be formed because those entrusted to
carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving fkery.
Nahhh, more the product of St Farage's ego and peoples hatred for the EU.carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving f
kery.Squiddly Diddly said:
pgh said:
I want the outcome of the referendum to be implemented. I believe not doing so will cause long lasting and untold damage to the UK through undermining the contract of democracy.
On this basis. I’d happily vote on Thursday for an MEP who’s sole stated aim is to go to Brussels and Strasbourg and set off the fire alarm every day.
It is being implemented so you have nothing to worry about.On this basis. I’d happily vote on Thursday for an MEP who’s sole stated aim is to go to Brussels and Strasbourg and set off the fire alarm every day.
As someone that doesn't actually vote, because of his professed distrust of politicians,
I'm sure you can understand and sympathise with that logic.
gooner1 said:
Belts and braces Diddly, belts and braces.
As someone that doesn't actually vote, because of his professed distrust of politicians,
I'm sure you can understand and sympathise with that logic.
It's not though.As someone that doesn't actually vote, because of his professed distrust of politicians,
I'm sure you can understand and sympathise with that logic.
MEP's have no power to deliver brexit.
Leavers just need to rein back their impatience.
FiF said:
My view is that a tiny minority at each extreme end of the spectrum are the problem children, though will confess my bias causes me to despise the Remain end of that spectrum rather more. I reckon the majority of the electorate are rather more moderate and willing to accept some compromise(s) if a, no matter how you look at it, clear democratic decision were to be respected even if some/many of them originally voted on the losing side. All those manipulating figures, and spouting one sided comfort blanket memes to justify whatever, well you are part of the problem children.
I think the point you make about moderates is valid and is why the 37% observation is relevant.Only extremists push for WTO and no deal - most moderates will remember that it was all promised to be easy, with great deals - even Farage used to talk about Norway etc. Many in the middle can see its now been a mess all along - and note just because of the negotiations. Would they still vote leave now the false promises are exposed?
You are right there has not been a big shift, but perhaps easily enough to reverse the mis informed vote (both sides) from 2016.
As above it is very sad to read about monsters being released and a majority in UK supporting policies from Le Penn etc. I don’t think a majority in the UK do at all - the UK is definitely better than sinking to Penn/BNP type politics.
I had an uber this week and the driver was Pakistani, lived in UK 20 years and voted leave. Nice guy very chatty- Why I asked? Keeping our money for the NHS. He now massively regretted it and wanted a vote to remain. How many like him can now so easily see through the false promises and reality? He was clearly one of the moderates you refer to.
Tuna said:
Elysium said:
Our country is better than this.
That what exactly? Voting for the only party that appears to offer the thing they voted for three years ago?You've spent the last three years telling Leavers why they don't deserve, can't have or shouldn't be permitted the thing they were offered in a democratic vote, and now you're surprised when they seem to be voting for the same thing again?
You act upset that these people are voting for bigots, when it's people with exactly your attitude who have pushed them to vote that way. You treated their views with contempt and expected what?
Tony427 said:
Get used to it sunshine, it really isn't.
The remainers have let the monster out of the box.
Refuse to accept a democratic decision and see what wil happen, all through the ballot box, the very vehicle that remainers chose to ignore.
BTW given that Marie Le Pen is polling in greater numbers than Macron the Bankers stooge are you now claiming that the majority of the French Population are also Bigots. Do they know? Have you told them?
I bet they would be mortified.
Not.
I think you are completely wrong, both in your description of what happened in response to the 2016 vote and in your characterisation of 'remainers'. The remainers have let the monster out of the box.
Refuse to accept a democratic decision and see what wil happen, all through the ballot box, the very vehicle that remainers chose to ignore.
BTW given that Marie Le Pen is polling in greater numbers than Macron the Bankers stooge are you now claiming that the majority of the French Population are also Bigots. Do they know? Have you told them?
I bet they would be mortified.
Not.
I don't want to be on your side, because it makes no sense to me at all.
gooner1 said:
It's disappointing that a Party has had to be formed because those entrusted to
carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving fkery.
There's some truth in that.carry out the result of a fair and legal Referendum have been incapeable, dishonest,
gutless etc, etc of doing so. TBP is the love child of their incesteous ,
conniving f
kery.I'm not sure the solution is replacing one lying self-serving set of politicians with another.
DeepEnd said:
I think the point you make about moderates is valid and is why the 37% observation is relevant.
Only extremists push for WTO and no deal - most moderates will remember that it was all promised to be easy, with great deals - even Farage used to talk about Norway etc. Many in the middle can see its now been a mess all along - and note just because of the negotiations. Would they still vote leave now the false promises are exposed?
You are right there has not been a big shift, but perhaps easily enough to reverse the mis informed vote (both sides) from 2016.
As above it is very sad to read about monsters being released and a majority in UK supporting policies from Le Penn etc. I don’t think a majority in the UK do at all - the UK is definitely better than sinking to Penn/BNP type politics.
I had an uber this week and the driver was Pakistani, lived in UK 20 years and voted leave. Nice guy very chatty- Why I asked? Keeping our money for the NHS. He now massively regretted it and wanted a vote to remain. How many like him can now so easily see through the false promises and reality? He was clearly one of the moderates you refer to.
You're not the missing toppstuff are you ? - he often referred to people who had changed their mind (always from Leave to Remain.....) after he'd interrogated them in taxis, workplaces, Argentina etc etc...Only extremists push for WTO and no deal - most moderates will remember that it was all promised to be easy, with great deals - even Farage used to talk about Norway etc. Many in the middle can see its now been a mess all along - and note just because of the negotiations. Would they still vote leave now the false promises are exposed?
You are right there has not been a big shift, but perhaps easily enough to reverse the mis informed vote (both sides) from 2016.
As above it is very sad to read about monsters being released and a majority in UK supporting policies from Le Penn etc. I don’t think a majority in the UK do at all - the UK is definitely better than sinking to Penn/BNP type politics.
I had an uber this week and the driver was Pakistani, lived in UK 20 years and voted leave. Nice guy very chatty- Why I asked? Keeping our money for the NHS. He now massively regretted it and wanted a vote to remain. How many like him can now so easily see through the false promises and reality? He was clearly one of the moderates you refer to.
Squiddly Diddly said:
It's not though.
MEP's have no power to deliver brexit.
Leavers just need to reign back their impatience.
Most did, but it appears to have run out.MEP's have no power to deliver brexit.
Leavers just need to reign back their impatience.
As for the Euro elections, you don't consider that vote ,result dependent,
that would just be a stepping stone? You talk of patience yet want to play the short game.
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