How do we think EU negotiations will go?

[anonymous-user]

Was it Groucho Marx who said that before you criticise a man you should first walk a mile in his shoes? Then when you criticise him you will be a mile away, and will have his shoes.

[gooner1]

Breadvan72 said:

Which language is best to describe the Davis vs May fun from today? Davis says the deal will be done at 11.59 and Parliament may only get a vote after Brexit. May says otherwise, Davis's Department then backtracks to say deal will be done "in good time". Good to see unity as always!

Mandarin.....Whitehall Mandarins?

[sidicks]

drainbrain said:

Ahem.

Of course I am.

And of course you didn't.

Didn't manage to get the convolution (now irrelevant tangent) back on topic stream, did I?? My bad.

I know we shouldn’t humour your pathetic trolling, but it is fun to make you repeatedly make a fool of yourself.

Once again, here is what I actually said:
...being able to hold an informal conversation in a foreign language is a million miles from being able to discuss business in that language.

If you can’t understand the difference then no problem, keep going and pretend otherwise!

Edited by sidicks on Wednesday 25th October 21:17

[anonymous-user]

alfie2244 said:

Not related really but has just reminded me of a little anecdote - we had a girl on our course that had an "A" level in French literature but couldn't speak a word of French

When I watch a French language film, I read the subtitles.

[drainbrain]

Breadvan72 said:

Which language is best to describe the Davis vs May fun from today? Davis says the deal will be done at 11.59 and Parliament may only get a vote after Brexit. May says otherwise, and Davis's Department then backtracks to say deal will be done "in good time". Good to see unity as always!

Business English??? Guess one of them didn't do the module.

Edited by drainbrain on Wednesday 25th October 22:54

[alfie2244]

jsf said:

alfie2244 said:

Not related really but has just reminded me of a little anecdote - we had a girl on our course that had an "A" level in French literature but couldn't speak a word of French

When I watch a French language film, I read the subtitles.

Don't you will have BV telling us all about his expert knowledge of the "Story of O" not sure it was a film though.

[citizensm1th]

Breadvan72 said:

Which language is best to describe the Davis vs May fun from today? Davis says the deal will be done at 11.59 and Parliament may only get a vote after Brexit. May says otherwise, and Davis's Department then backtracks to say deal will be done "in good time". Good to see unity as always!

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 25th October 21:05

porker Mr Orwell

[anonymous-user]

Breadvan72 said:

Which language is best to describe the Davis vs May fun from today? Davis says the deal will be done at 11.59 and Parliament may only get a vote after Brexit. May says otherwise, and Davis's Department then backtracks to say deal will be done "in good time". Good to see unity as always!

Edited by Breadvan72 on Wednesday 25th October 21:05

Its pretty bloody obvious that Davis is right and May is also saying the same thing but wont answer directly what could happen. The press release doesn't disagree with Davis or May either if you read it, it just says what we know, which is that the target is to sort this in good time, but that might not happen. Why people just don't tell the plain truth and have to put on a spin on things is why people get pissed off with politicians.

The only way to guarantee what Davis said doesn't happen is to put our own time limit on negotiations that gives enough time for a debate and a vote in both houses of Parliament before the Article 50 time runs out. I don't see that happening, do you?

[problemchild1976]

Ridgemont said:

I fear you are missing the point. Having 100 people of which 52% only are net contributors means that 48 people are a net drain. Add an additional 15 people all of whom are net negative means that either

1) the 52% pay more tax
2) entitlements for everyone including the 48% are reduced
3) we rack up more debt

The point he was making wasn't that it should be fair that you and yours should pay more. He was observing that adding another 15 workers has a net negative impact on the rest of us.

no....if there are 100 jobs (filled by 100 people) then why does it matter if they are UK nationals being paid £15k or EU citizens being paid £15k

the country isn't creating jobs, the job requirement set the resource requirement. If a company as a requirement, it advertises a job and it advertises it in a competitive market. They don't pay an EU citizen less than a UK national.

No one is controlling UK birth rate. If a job needs to be filled now to ensure a business succeeds and makes profit and pays corporation tax then fill that job with the best person through competitive selection. get the best people, make the most profit.

jsf said:

I didn't comment about your friend because I didn't want to be unkind. She is clearly thick as mince, just like her friend.

She is thick as mince and she voted to leave yet she is still a lovely lady though and gives a great hair cut but is probably a "net drain" on the economy

I know i'm thick as mince (albeit educated to degree level in engineering) but as i didn't have the intelligence to make an informed decision I voted to stay and hope reform would come or other options that werent so hard stop may come along. i'm a nice guy though but i'm also not driven by bigotry either

so out of the 3 of us, 66% are thick as mince and thats democracy

i think its great there are people who fully understand the complexities of the situation. I think your mistake is assuming most voters are as bright as you. They aren't. They really aren't.

PESTLE knowledge across the country in spread thin

look at the negotiating team..... even THEY know they can't make a decision as a single person

JJ

[Robertj21a]

Come on guys, try a bit harder. We're only on about 12 pages of twaddle today so far, no doubt there's much more to come tonight - how about in the morning we then get back to the key subject matter ?

[anonymous-user]

problemchild1976 said:

She is thick as mince and she voted to leave yet she is still a lovely lady though and gives a great hair cut but is probably a "net drain" on the economy

I know i'm thick as mince (albeit educated to degree level in engineering) but as i didn't have the intelligence to make an informed decision I voted to stay and hope reform would come or other options that werent so hard stop may come along. i'm a nice guy though but i'm also not driven by bigotry either

so out of the 3 of us, 66% are thick as mince and thats democracy

i think its great there are people who fully understand the complexities of the situation. I think your mistake is assuming most voters are as bright as you. They aren't. They really aren't.

PESTLE knowledge across the country in spread thin

look at the negotiating team..... even THEY know they can't make a decision as a single person

JJ

I have never suggested democracy requires bright people. We could argue for ever what bright means.

The moment you went on your GP teams cant employ people wander, you joined the thick as mince brigade.

If you stop posting nonsense you could redeem yourself.

[problemchild1976]

never said can't...

like i said, was watching the GP and considering the "mechanics" (pun intended) of it all.

my point is, many people want to minimise EU nationals in the UK which isn't possible. Not saying you think thats feasible.

what i don't get is the difference between a points based approach or just competitive recruiting

how much is it gonna cost to implement a points based system just to decide that the NHS does indeed need EU nationals (but can we take the money from the NHS to decide it was all being recruited fine in the first place)

i still think the demand for workers drives immigration not the other way round

JJ

[anonymous-user]

Even a country as vast as the USA has controlled immigration. Just think about why countries have such policies.

[anonymous-user]

alfie2244 said:

jsf said:

alfie2244 said:

Not related really but has just reminded me of a little anecdote - we had a girl on our course that had an "A" level in French literature but couldn't speak a word of French

When I watch a French language film, I read the subtitles.

Don't you will have BV telling us all about his expert knowledge of the "Story of O" not sure it was a film though.

Is that the one about an unfortunate woman who gets dragged off to some remote location to be thwacked and rogered senseless by a bunch of scoundrels, or is that the Tory Party Conference?

[anonymous-user]

Thinking of some slightly different aspects to the negotiations-we’ve heard a lot about France and Germany, and Spain to a lesser extent.

But what about the other countries and what they want from the negotiations? I think I read that our trade deficit with the EU is with just a few countries and we run a surplus with the majority-but we run big deficits and small surpluses so overall it’s a deficit.

Does this alter the manner of the negotiations if every country has to agree to the deal?

[Murph7355]

cookie118 said:

Thinking of some slightly different aspects to the negotiations-we’ve heard a lot about France and Germany, and Spain to a lesser extent.

But what about the other countries and what they want from the negotiations? I think I read that our trade deficit with the EU is with just a few countries and we run a surplus with the majority-but we run big deficits and small surpluses so overall it’s a deficit.

Does this alter the manner of the negotiations if every country has to agree to the deal?

I can't see why it would - we aren't negotiating with separate countries after all, just the EU

I suspect this aspect will become more significant later on next year when Barnier (assuming he remains in charge) starts to go back around the table with them all.

Also assuming he can do that then and it doesn't all get left to 11:59 and the minion states are just told to suck it up by Germany. Which, of course, will never happen.

I suspect lack of media coverage may be partly due to most states having much bigger other issues going on at present.

[Not-The-Messiah]

mx5nut said:

sidicks said:

Mrr T said:

Since there is clear evidence EU immigrants are better educated than the UK average. That means they will have improved productivity.

Nonsense.

Oh no, it's fingers in ears, head in the sand time again

How do you explain that the UK productivity has hardly improved much in the last 10-15years but the number of people with degree as increased quite substantially? Obviously if you hypothesis was true productivity would have increased inline with the numbers of graduates.

Also the same is true with the numbers of EU citizens coming here, the numbers start to rise dramatically just as the productivity starts to slump.

[smifffymoto]

Business language is twaddle.There is no difference between French and business French.
There is a difference however in job specific vocabulary.

[Mrr T]

sidicks said:

Mrr T said:

Best ask JagLover.

His post suggests no such thing. So in that case, you can’t justify the claim?

So JagLover made no claim that poor productivity growth was partly the result of mass immigration of low skilled workers? But:

Mrr T said:

JagLover said:

ORD said:

Oooooh correlation does not show causation. Really iffy reasoning.

2000- has seen relatively little growth because (1) the financial world basically collapsed halfway through it and (2) the West has largely had its day and wealth is inevitably to be shared out more evenly across countries.

I was responding to a post that claimed the years since 2000 have been great, and they haven't.

As to the causes of that in a UK context that is another matter. Poor productivity growth in particular has been partly attributed to the mass migration of low skilled workers.

Since there is clear evidence EU immigrants are better educated than the UK average. That means they will have improved productivity.

[mx5nut]

Mrr T said:

Since there is clear evidence EU immigrants are better educated than the UK average. That means they will have improved productivity.

Leave it to the Daily Mail to bang the anti intellectualism drum - they'll likely tell you that's a bad thing based on the way they're going with today's front page