Public sector pension announcement

[robsti]

crankedup said:

Because you cannot afford a decent pension (wrong job?) is hardly a reason for hoping to deny others their just dues is it. I gather that most P.S. workers receive well under 12k yearly pension, hardly generous! As tax payers we all fund things that perhaps we do not approve, but that's life.
P.S. I like lots of things in life that I wouldn't want to pay for - leads to a life of crime generally, so best ignored.

To get £12k pension in the real world you would have to have a pension pot of £200k !!!!

[Johnnytheboy]

unrepentant said:

Johnnytheboy said:

There's a difference between jealousy and not wanting to fund something for others that I can't afford myself.

I like my neighbour's Alfa, but I wouldn't want to pay for it for her.

So you don't shop at Tesco or Sainsburys or buy a newspaper or watch SKY TV or eat food or buy anything at all from anywhere? Because every time you do you're funding the pensions of someone.

Yes, but in all those cases I have a choice, and any company that tried to give its staff as generous pensions as many in the public sector are striving to protect would go to the wall.

unrepentant said:

It's ludicrous for people to pompously declare that they "object to funding public service pensions" as though they are somehow more worthy than the nurse or the doctor or the fireman or the soldier or the bloke that empties your dustbin. Everyone pays taxes and that includes public servants. Taxes pay for the cost of public services, not individuals.

The issue is whether it's fair for the rest of us to pay public sector workers pensions that we can't afford ourselves.

Nice choice of professions to list by that way. If the public sector consisted solely of people that useful, I'd have no objections to funding their retirement.

[mph1977]

robsti said:

To get £12k pension in the real world you would have to have a pension pot of £200k !!!!

an experienced staff nurse has a salary after allowances of around 30-33 k GBP

they will pay 6.5% of this as 'pension contributions' from their wage ( it appears as deduction) the employer also pays to the NHS pension agency a sum equivalent to around 14% of the salary

so overall the NHS pension agency recieves approx 20 % of the salary paid so roughly 6k GBP , yes we know that it;s unfunded and the employers contribution is government 'funny money' ... and all the other excuses used by the jealous ...

6k gbp * 40 years = 240 k gbp = so that 13 to 14 k pension based on the salary of 27.5k excluding allowances... suddenly isn't that much of ridiculous amount is it ?

[mph1977]

Johnnytheboy said:

The issue is whether it's fair for the rest of us to pay public sector workers pensions that we can't afford ourselves.

Nice choice of professions to list by that way. If the public sector consisted solely of people that useful, I'd have no objections to funding their retirement.

the point is people keep using the truely gold plated whitehall snivel serpent pensions as the model of contribution, mix in a bit of rabble rousing about BiB and trumpton pensions being 30 years rather 40 to get a full pension ( which they are currently paying 11 % 'employee contribution' towards as well as the funny money 'employer contribution') and unsuprisingly those of us (NHS staff in particular) working for 40 years contributing 6-8 % of our take home towards the pension get more than slightly hacked off

what would a graduate with 10 years experience working a 24 hour shift pattern in a 'service critical environment' often without direct supervision be paid in private industry ? would they get a car, an expensed phone , private healthcare, membership for a big name gym, bonuses if targets were beaten ?

the same person working in the NHS gets 30 -33k , technically we aren't even meant to use the landlines for none business calls and should we be trusted with a trust phone it'll be audited to the minutiae , assuming it's not locked to the phone book ... Bonuses for targets - that'd be a fine thing.. the only bonus for hitting targets in the NHS is not getting verbally abused, sorry, 'counselled over performance issues' by some failed baked bean stacker or brown nosed clinically incompetent fool promoted away from harming patients to the land of spotty frocks and unsuitable for the clinical area footwear ...

[IroningMan]

mph1977 said:

robsti said:

To get £12k pension in the real world you would have to have a pension pot of £200k !!!!

an experienced staff nurse has a salary after allowances of around 30-33 k GBP

they will pay 6.5% of this as 'pension contributions' from their wage ( it appears as deduction) the employer also pays to the NHS pension agency a sum equivalent to around 14% of the salary

so overall the NHS pension agency recieves approx 20 % of the salary paid so roughly 6k GBP , yes we know that it;s unfunded and the employers contribution is government 'funny money' ... and all the other excuses used by the jealous ...

6k gbp * 40 years = 240 k gbp = so that 13 to 14 k pension based on the salary of 27.5k excluding allowances... suddenly isn't that much of ridiculous amount is it ?

Neat. But unfortunately the contributions aren't £6k a year for 40 years, are they? Because the salary isn't £30k for 40 years, is it? If it's £30k now then it was likely barely £1k 40 years ago...

[Ozzie Osmond]

robsti said:

To get £12k pension in the real world you would have to have a pension pot of £200k !!!!

'fraid you're way too low on those numbers.

Looking at a retirement age of 60ish, an index-linked pension and a smaller pension for a spouse after your death you need to multiply the "pension" figure by something like x30 to get the lump sum required.

£12k x 30 = £360,000

This shows the sheer scale of the public sector pension problem.

[Ozzie Osmond]

STURBO said:

I think the unions & public sector workers are secretly pretty happy with this outcome.

Dead right. It's too little and too late. They will still have to cut back further on new joiners.

[JagLover]

vonuber said:

I would love some of you lot to meet up with my mum and have a chat with her about gold plated pensions. She's worked as a social worker for donkey's years, on st pay and is getting relatively little for it; doing a job that most on here would not want to do.
I work in the private sector; and I know what pension (or lack of) I am getting - I also understand the role a large amount of the public sector do in this country doing the jobs most people don't want to do, generally for lower wages than in the private sector.

Except that wages are higher in the public sector, even after adjusting for levels of education.

Also if you care to look at the chart you will notice that the lower paid will have either a no increase or only a small increase in their contributions.

[Ozzie Osmond]

mph1977 said:

the 'summer holidays' are 6 and a bit weeks long

...and then there's Easter, and Christmas, and a few half-terms.

mph1977 said:

anyone 'running off home' at the end of school is either taking their marking with them or will be putting in early mornings and late nights elsewhere in the week for marking etc ...

Round my way the school kids seem to go in about 9.00 am and leave at 3.00 pm. Which seems to leave a couple of hours for "marking" before even reaching the sort of working hours which most people experience.

A group of people with secure jobs, nice pensions, short working hours and long holidays are never going to get much sympathy round here.

[eldar]

Ozzie Osmond said:

'fraid you're way too low on those numbers.

Looking at a retirement age of 60ish, an index-linked pension and a smaller pension for a spouse after your death you need to multiply the "pension" figure by something like x30 to get the lump sum required.

£12k x 30 = £360,000

This shows the sheer scale of the public sector pension problem.

You sure? If I invested 360k with a bit of care I'd get over 12k and maintain the capital for a few years until inflation bit.

[mph1977]

Ozzie Osmond said:

mph1977 said:

the 'summer holidays' are 6 and a bit weeks long

...and then there's Easter, and Christmas, and a few half-terms.

and how many private businesses shut down or run on skeleton staffing between christmas and the new year ...

you also seem to assume that just because the kids aren't in the staff are on holiday as well , while there may only be 5 contracted none contact days ...

[miniman]

crankedup said:

miniman said:

Pondered Scrotum said:

miniman said:

You should probably say what your job is, then.

Why? The tone of your OP clearly indicates you consier all public sector workers to be one-and-the-same; "poor lambs" with gold plated final salary pensions...

Prove me wrong.

Osbourne chimed in this evening suggesting that the 'private sector' are simply jealous of the Public sector pension arrangements. Reading some of these posts seems he is correct.

Not sure "jealous" is the right word... I'd certainly like a final salary pension in exchange for 5% of salary, but I certainly wouldn't entertain working in the public sector to get it.

[robsti]

mph1977 said:

robsti said:

To get £12k pension in the real world you would have to have a pension pot of £200k !!!!

an experienced staff nurse has a salary after allowances of around 30-33 k GBP

they will pay 6.5% of this as 'pension contributions' from their wage ( it appears as deduction) the employer also pays to the NHS pension agency a sum equivalent to around 14% of the salary

so overall the NHS pension agency recieves approx 20 % of the salary paid so roughly 6k GBP , yes we know that it;s unfunded and the employers contribution is government 'funny money' ... and all the other excuses used by the jealous ...

6k gbp * 40 years = 240 k gbp = so that 13 to 14 k pension based on the salary of 27.5k excluding allowances... suddenly isn't that much of ridiculous amount is it ?

But the extra 14% paid in by the employer is taxpayers money not the employees!

[anonymous-user]

i dont begrudge anyone a 12k pension for a lifetime of work... i seriously begrudge the likes of brown and prescott an index linked 100k pension. talk about reward for failure! how much of a pension pot would one need in the private sector to get that? are we even allowed to put that much in?

[vonuber]

JagLover said:

Except that wages are higher in the public sector, even after adjusting for levels of education.

Also if you care to look at the chart you will notice that the lower paid will have either a no increase or only a small increase in their contributions.

Wages are higher in the Public Sector? Really?

[miniman]

crankedup said:

Osbourne chimed in this evening suggesting that the 'private sector' are simply jealous of the Public sector pension arrangements. Reading some of these posts seems he is correct.

Incidentally, having just watched it, thats really not how he said it. It was a passing remark, nothing more.

[Randy Winkman]

Ozzie Osmond said:

STURBO said:

I think the unions & public sector workers are secretly pretty happy with this outcome.

Dead right. It's too little and too late. They will still have to cut back further on new joiners.

They are going to cut back further for all staff, not just new entrants. The change to contributions is just the first step.

[Adrian W]

mph1977 said:

and how many private businesses shut down or run on skeleton staffing between christmas and the new year ...

you also seem to assume that just because the kids aren't in the staff are on holiday as well , while there may only be 5 contracted none contact days ...

You conveniently forgot to mention all these inset days, for training and the latest one, academic review days, that I have to take time off work for because now they are in the day, because teachers wont do it in the evening.

People in the public sector need to appreciate the strength of feeling concerning pensions.

[mph1977]

robsti said:

But the extra 14% paid in by the employer is taxpayers money not the employees!

and your point ...

would you actually like to be cared for by professionals should you have to use the NHS ... or perhaps you'd like to be cared for by private contractors who only care about maximising profit ( if corporate) doing the least for the most pay ( individuals)...

I am a strong advocate that everytime someone uses an NHS service they should be given a bill showing the true cost of the care they have recieved and with the exception of paid for prescriptions for generic drugs I think you'd be pleasantly suprised ...

Edited by mph1977 on Thursday 28th July 23:40

[mph1977]

Adrian W said:

You conveniently forgot to mention all these inset days, for training and the latest one, academic review days, that I have to take time off work for because now they are in the day, because teachers wont do it in the evening.

People in the public sector need to appreciate the strength of feeling concerning pensions.

and would you take on an obligation to work outside your contracted hours ...

people conveniently forget all the outside of contracted hours work that Teachers are obligated to do there's a limited amount of time allocated for marking etc - in some schools that can be as little as an hour a week ... or perhaps you'd like report evening to be done during the teacher's contracted hours, or for people getting exam results at the start of term rather than on result day ... or the days around result day where staff collate results etc... and then counsel the recipients of the results...