Class - Is it still relevant?

[mrmr96]

SpeedMattersNot said:

I think today we have;

1) Upper Class

2) Working Class

3) Non-Working Class

I don't think "middle-class" actually exists anymore. If you've got a job in the UK, chances are you'll live a comfortable life style. I personally think that's a good thing.

1) Upper Class (butler)
2.1) Middle Class (waitrose/marks and spencer/john lewis/german cars)
2.2) Working Class (sainsburys/tesco/primark/french cars)
3) Non-Working Class (asda/morrisons/ocean finance/public transport)

[SpeedMattersNot]

mrmr96 said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

I think today we have;

1) Upper Class

2) Working Class

3) Non-Working Class

I don't think "middle-class" actually exists anymore. If you've got a job in the UK, chances are you'll live a comfortable life style. I personally think that's a good thing.

1) Upper Class (butler)
2.1) Middle Class (waitrose/marks and spencer/john lewis/german cars)
2.2) Working Class (sainsburys/tesco/primark/french cars)
3) Non-Working Class (asda/morrisons/ocean finance/public transport)

Haha, I like it!

I'm somewhere between 2.1 and 3

[Jimslips]

SpeedMattersNot said:

I guess professionalism in a job and aquired education is probably a better indicator of intelligence, rather than wealth or class.

How about how ‘professional’ the job is deemed to be/is?
You are basically saying that a surgeon is like to be same class as a cleaner/receptionist as it ‘all’ depend on how intelligent they are. It does not matter, they are still the same class?

For the record. I work and so I am any class but upper.

Edited by Jimslips on Wednesday 21st December 10:42

[Dracoro]

I'm not sure what class I am, I'll have to ask my butler.

[disco1]

Don't agree that the UK has the worst class system, as other have mentioned you only need to look as India. I would go as far as saying the USA has a bigger class system than us, it orignated with the Northeastern robber barons/WASPS but now firmly entrenched all over the country. Very eliteist society, just look at their entry requirments to yacht or country clubs. You don't ask to join, you get invited based on your standing/$$$. Another example is their expensive closed gate communities, they too have pretty rigid entry requirments.

The Aussies don't get off this scott free either, they love to promote themselves as a classless society but it couldn't be further from the truth.

[jdw1234]

Middle class is an invention to get all the provincial, new build estate, mouth breathing, XFactor enthusiasts to take out loads of credit to buy shiny crap they don't need.

I see it as:

Proper title in family(not pretend Alan Sugar one) or traceable lineage to royal family/court/land owner granted by King = upperclass.

Middle class should = previously from upperclass family, but not first son (direct heir) so joined army, clergy or profession such as banker/lawyer/doctor.

Everyone else = working class.

Recent labour invention = feral underclass.

[Digga]

Guybrush said:

like private school kids some of whom can be apt to denigrate state school kids purely on the basis of where their parents sent them to school. Surely a weak foundation for such misplaced arrogance? I went to public school and we did not behave like that at all, but sadly I see this more now in the young privately-educated - maybe a different class has the money now?

O/T Went as a +1 with a mate to his college friend's 18th. Me and my made went to the same state school (actually a pretty good one as it happens, in an ordinary middle class area) up to A levels and this friend he'd met at college previously went to Sedburgh School.

Long story short, one of the Sedburgh lads spent the whole evening calling us (the state schoolers) "Kevins" and generally being unpleasant. There was a lot of free booze in the place. There was a room where we were all going to doss-down in sleping bags, post-party and this mouthy git gibbed out early, clearly unable to take his drink. He'd really pissed me off and, although I shouldn't perhaps have done it, I decided to wake him up by putting the CO2 fire extinguisher hose down his sleeping bag. I;ve never seen a passed-out drunk person wake up and get out of bed into a sprint before or since!

[jdw1234]

jdw1234 said:

Middle class is an invention to get all the provincial, new build estate, mouth breathing, XFactor enthusiasts to take out loads of credit to buy shiny crap they don't need.

I see it as:

Proper title in family(not pretend Alan Sugar one) or traceable lineage to royal family/court/land owner granted by King = upperclass.

Middle class should = previously from upperclass family, but not first son (direct heir) so joined army, clergy or profession such as banker/lawyer/doctor.

Everyone else = working class.

Recent labour invention = feral underclass.

P.S. by my definitions I am working class!!

[SpeedMattersNot]

jdw1234 said:

Middle class is an invention to get all the provincial, new build estate, mouth breathing, XFactor enthusiasts to take out loads of credit to buy shiny crap they don't need.

I see it as:

Proper title in family(not pretend Alan Sugar one) or traceable lineage to royal family/court/land owner granted by King = upperclass.

Middle class should = previously from upperclass family, but not first son (direct heir) so joined army, clergy or profession such as banker/lawyer/doctor.

Everyone else = working class.

Recent labour invention = feral underclass.

Hardly fair! The estate I grew up on had a council estate bolted onto the side of it in the late 70's early 80's. Needy people are nothing new

[obob]

So from this thread it seems Class is only relevant to pretentious people?

[mrmr96]

To all those that say class <> money. I agree that you can be rich and still lower class.
But can you really be Upper Class and poor? I know there was a TV show about some guy who had inherited a MASSIVE country house, but couldn't afford to maintain it properly, but surely most people who are Upper Class have money too? I just don't see it possible to be Upper Class and poor, because surely Upper Class is to do with status? And being poor you lose the status? (Not saying being poor causes a loss of status, but rather the same "thing" that caused the poorness would also 99% of the time lose you your status too?)

[SpeedMattersNot]

Jimslips said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

I guess professionalism in a job and aquired education is probably a better indicator of intelligence, rather than wealth or class.

How about how ‘professional’ the job is deemed to be/is?
You are basically saying that a surgeon is like to be same class as a cleaner/receptionist as it ‘all’ depend on how intelligent they are. It does not matter, they are still the same class?

For the record. I work and so I am any class but upper.

Edited by Jimslips on Wednesday 21st December 10:42

If they're still pro-active about their work and are only seperated by intelligence and/or chances brought to them in their lives, I do believe they have more in common than those who do not wish to work and instead, disrupt anyone who does work!

[jdw1234]

SpeedMattersNot said:

jdw1234 said:

Middle class is an invention to get all the provincial, new build estate, mouth breathing, XFactor enthusiasts to take out loads of credit to buy shiny crap they don't need.

I see it as:

Proper title in family(not pretend Alan Sugar one) or traceable lineage to royal family/court/land owner granted by King = upperclass.

Middle class should = previously from upperclass family, but not first son (direct heir) so joined army, clergy or profession such as banker/lawyer/doctor.

Everyone else = working class.

Recent labour invention = feral underclass.

Hardly fair! The estate I grew up on had a council estate bolted onto the side of it in the late 70's early 80's. Needy people are nothing new

They are working class.

I assume they were not sat at home watching Sky TV and smoking B&H paid for by the state.

[jdw1234]

obob said:

So from this thread it seems Class is only relevant to pretentious people?

I agree with you.

[jdw1234]

mrmr96 said:

To all those that say class <> money. I agree that you can be rich and still lower class.
But can you really be Upper Class and poor? I know there was a TV show about some guy who had inherited a MASSIVE country house, but couldn't afford to maintain it properly, but surely most people who are Upper Class have money too? I just don't see it possible to be Upper Class and poor, because surely Upper Class is to do with status? And being poor you lose the status? (Not saying being poor causes a loss of status, but rather the same "thing" that caused the poorness would also 99% of the time lose you your status too?)

Inheritance tax?

[SpeedMattersNot]

jdw1234 said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

jdw1234 said:

Middle class is an invention to get all the provincial, new build estate, mouth breathing, XFactor enthusiasts to take out loads of credit to buy shiny crap they don't need.

I see it as:

Proper title in family(not pretend Alan Sugar one) or traceable lineage to royal family/court/land owner granted by King = upperclass.

Middle class should = previously from upperclass family, but not first son (direct heir) so joined army, clergy or profession such as banker/lawyer/doctor.

Everyone else = working class.

Recent labour invention = feral underclass.

Hardly fair! The estate I grew up on had a council estate bolted onto the side of it in the late 70's early 80's. Needy people are nothing new

They are working class.

I assume they were not sat at home watching Sky TV and smoking B&H paid for by the state.

We suffered the most vandalism during the 80's on our estate. Thankfully things cooled off during the middle of the 90's and it's actually quite a nice place now.

Don't think Sky was around but some of the people back then, were lowest of the low. Maybe now at least that they've got Sky TV they don't have to be out on the streets harrassing everyone else? :P

[otolith]

Class is the mechanism by which those who are descended from successful people maintain the delusion that they are superior to those who have achieved success for themselves. When the landowner can no longer sneer at the merchant's lack of wealth, he needs to find a new reason to despise him.

[jdw1234]

SpeedMattersNot said:

jdw1234 said:

SpeedMattersNot said:

jdw1234 said:

Middle class is an invention to get all the provincial, new build estate, mouth breathing, XFactor enthusiasts to take out loads of credit to buy shiny crap they don't need.

I see it as:

Proper title in family(not pretend Alan Sugar one) or traceable lineage to royal family/court/land owner granted by King = upperclass.

Middle class should = previously from upperclass family, but not first son (direct heir) so joined army, clergy or profession such as banker/lawyer/doctor.

Everyone else = working class.

Recent labour invention = feral underclass.

Hardly fair! The estate I grew up on had a council estate bolted onto the side of it in the late 70's early 80's. Needy people are nothing new

They are working class.

I assume they were not sat at home watching Sky TV and smoking B&H paid for by the state.

We suffered the most vandalism during the 80's on our estate. Thankfully things cooled off during the middle of the 90's and it's actually quite a nice place now.

Don't think Sky was around but some of the people back then, were lowest of the low. Maybe now at least that they've got Sky TV they don't have to be out on the streets harrassing everyone else? :P

Good points. You are right.

Good honest working class (badge of honour) needs to be differentiated from spongers though. Hence ferral underclass needs to be included!!

[jdw1234]

otolith said:

Class is the mechanism by which those who are descended from successful people maintain the delusion that they are superior to those who have achieved success for themselves. When the landowner can no longer sneer at the merchant's lack of wealth, he needs to find a new reason to despise him.

Really?

I find the upperclass and lower class don't care (and are the most fun).

It is the nasty middle that worry about it.

[DeadMeat_UK]

SpeedMattersNot said:

1) Upper Class (butler)
2.1) Middle Class (waitrose/marks and spencer/john lewis/german and british cars)
2.2) Working Class (sainsburys/tesco/primark/french cars)
3) Non-Working Class (asda/morrisons/ocean finance/german or french cars with bits stuck on)

EFA