Bali and 5 kilos of coke...

[Ayahuasca]

hairykrishna said:

andymadmak said:

You do know that just about everything sold in the UK is far cheaper in the country of its production? Coffee? Tea? Even vegetables are much, much cheaper in the places like South america and india and africa where they are grown. The add on costs of "official" distribution channels in the uk mean we pay through the nose. Why would drugs be so different?

Compare Columbia for coke and coffee. Processed coffee ~£1 a kilo in Columbia, ~£2 a kilo wholesale, on the docks, price in the UK. Processed pure coke in Columbia ~£1000 a kilo, ~£50k wholesale UK price. That leaves a lot of room for the cost of official distribution channels and tax.

Those figures don't allow for cutting which would multiply the cocaine by at least 400% to GBP 200,000.

You can't cut coffee (although tasting Nescafe I am not so sure..)

[capitalist]

Anyone who is against drugs like marijuana and cocaine but doesn't hold the same stance on alcohol and cigarettes is a hypocrite.

[just me]

capitalist said:

Anyone who is against drugs like marijuana and cocaine but doesn't hold the same stance on alcohol and cigarettes is a hypocrite.

Well said.

[just me]

Ayahuasca said:

Those figures don't allow for cutting which would multiply the cocaine by at least 400% to GBP 200,000.

You can't cut coffee (although tasting Nescafe I am not so sure..)

Sure you can. You can cut anything. If coffee was illegal, making it a scarce commodity, you can bet it would be cut and recut before it was sold. It would also sell for much higher prices, and the people profiting from it would be criminals funding a host of other undesirable activities, just as it is with the illegal drug trade today.

[exgtt]

just me said:

capitalist said:

Anyone who is against drugs like marijuana and cocaine but doesn't hold the same stance on alcohol and cigarettes is a hypocrite.

Well said.

Agreed.

Without going into too much detail ive kicked a destructive Coke habit and those thinking legalizing Cocaine is the magic tax generator and crime reduction solution is ignorant beyond belief.

Coke is massivley addictive/destructive.

Giving the general public easy access to pure Cocaine!? Come on have any of you actually done Cocaine? Tried to get a good nights sleep after taking Cocaine? Not craved (and i mean CRAVED) another line when it's run out?

Also is anyone seriously sudgesting that all those crims dealing drugs are going to set up legit business/go to college/get an education/get a job if drugs were legalized??

Complete bks. It's not going to happen.

The best time to legalize narcotics has passed many, many years ago.

Edited by exgtt on Thursday 31st May 20:16

[capitalist]

exgtt said:

Agreed.

Without going into too much detail ive kicked a destructive Coke habit and those thinking legalizing Cocaine is the magic tax generator and crime reduction solution is ignorant beyond belief.

Coke is massivley addictive/destructive.

Giving the general public easy access to pure Cocaine!? Come on have any of you actually done Cocaine? Tried to get a good nights sleep after taking Cocaine? Not craved (and i mean CRAVED) another line when it's run out?

Also is anyone seriously sudgesting that all those crims dealing drugs are going to set up legit business/go to college/get an education/get a job if drugs were legalized??

Complete bks. It's not going to happen.

The best time to legalize narcotics has passed many, many years ago.

Edited by exgtt on Thursday 31st May 20:16

Not sure where you stand? you for or against legalization?

[wormburner]

capitalist said:

exgtt said:

Agreed.

Without going into too much detail ive kicked a destructive Coke habit and those thinking legalizing Cocaine is the magic tax generator and crime reduction solution is ignorant beyond belief.

Coke is massivley addictive/destructive.

Giving the general public easy access to pure Cocaine!? Come on have any of you actually done Cocaine? Tried to get a good nights sleep after taking Cocaine? Not craved (and i mean CRAVED) another line when it's run out?

Also is anyone seriously sudgesting that all those crims dealing drugs are going to set up legit business/go to college/get an education/get a job if drugs were legalized??

Complete bks. It's not going to happen.

The best time to legalize narcotics has passed many, many years ago.

Edited by exgtt on Thursday 31st May 20:16

Not sure where you stand? you for or against legalization?

Recovering drug addict says drugs are addictive, and shouldn't be legalised.

But suggests that the excellent money drug dealers make isn't affecting their criminality.

And suggests that there was a time when the above wasn't the case and when legalisation would have been ok. Making drugs legal today, which he didn't want to happen.

Gotta be honest, it's a puzzle of a post.

[hairykrishna]

exgtt said:

Also is anyone seriously sudgesting that all those crims dealing drugs are going to set up legit business/go to college/get an education/get a job if drugs were legalized??

I'd suggest that removing an illegal market worth ~£5bn would probably reduce the amount of criminals. A lot of people go into dealing because they think, often rightly, that they can make a lot of money easily for little risk. Doesn't apply to that many criminal enterprises.

[TTwiggy]

hairykrishna said:

exgtt said:

Also is anyone seriously sudgesting that all those crims dealing drugs are going to set up legit business/go to college/get an education/get a job if drugs were legalized??

I'd suggest that removing an illegal market worth ~£5bn would probably reduce the amount of criminals. A lot of people go into dealing because they think, often rightly, that they can make a lot of money easily for little risk. Doesn't apply to that many criminal enterprises.

And while it suits the police and the media to have us believe that the reason for kids shooting each other on our streets is down to 'postcode wars' or issues of 'respect', it's down to drugs (the dealing of them), nothing else.

[900T-R]

jbudgie said:

No sympathy from me. All drug dealers should be shot .

For what? Supplying a good for which there's demand?

[exgtt]

I'm for criminalisation. I had a very wide circle of friends all getting stuck into it. 9-5'ers like me, chavs, successful business people, unsucessful business people, criminals, proffesionals, unemployed etc etc. It got a grip and effected all of us in one way or another. We had easy access, i'm against decriminisation based on my experiences and the effect i could see it had on others in all walks of life.

And of course having something made legal say 150 years ago and seeing how that effects society throught the 30's, 40's, 70's, 80's, 90's etc is totally different to making something suddenly legal in 2012.

• edit*

Im for the de criminalisation of Cannabis just to throw a curveball in there

Edited by exgtt on Friday 1st June 13:06

[hairykrishna]

Criminalisation seems to fail miserably as a means of controlling supply when it comes to drugs. Does anyone who wants them really struggle to get them? I can't see a big increase in people taking coke or heroin if they were made illegal overnight.

[youngsyr]

hairykrishna said:

Criminalisation seems to fail miserably as a means of controlling supply when it comes to drugs. Does anyone who wants them really struggle to get them? I can't see a big increase in people taking coke or heroin if they were made illegal overnight.

I would imagine many young adults struggle to get drugs and would certainly buy them if they were legal. I'd be very surprised if drug use didn't increase if they were legalised.

However, legalising them ensures that new users get clean drugs, know exactly what dose they're getting, won't have to seek out criminals to buy them and will presumably have access to proper information on how to take them as safely as possible, just as they would with prescription drugs.

As for someone else's claim that the cost of drugs would be equivalent whether legal or illegal - don't make me laugh. Cocaine is more expensive than gold on a gram for gram basis.

Edited by youngsyr on Friday 1st June 13:46

[hairykrishna]

It'd increase to a certain extent, I agree. The popularity of the MDMA analogue 'legal highs', which are often more dangerous than MDMA, show that. I'm just not sure how much of an increase it'd be compared to current usage.

[anonymous-user]

andymadmak said:

We are an island. We could stop cocaine getting in here if we REALLY wanted to.

I very much doubt that.

Patrol and monitor every mile of our 7723 miles of coastline 24 hours a day to stop any boats arriving with the stuff??

Are you for real?

Thats before you even consider smuggling by humans via ports and airport, or air drops via light aircraft etc.

Crazy.

[youngsyr]

NinjaPower said:

andymadmak said:

We are an island. We could stop cocaine getting in here if we REALLY wanted to.

I very much doubt that.

Patrol and monitor every mile of our 7723 miles of coastline 24 hours a day to stop any boats arriving with the stuff??

Are you for real?

Thats before you even consider smuggling by humans via ports and airport, or air drops via light aircraft etc.

Crazy.

Pretty much anything is possible if you chuck enough time and money at it, just look at the moon landings. However, I wouldn't want to live in a place that dedicated so much of its resources into stopping drugs getting in.

[TTwiggy]

exgtt said:

I'm for criminalisation. I had a very wide circle of friends all getting stuck into it. 9-5'ers like me, chavs, successful business people, unsucessful business people, criminals, proffesionals, unemployed etc etc. It got a grip and effected all of us in one way or another. We had easy access (snip)

Edited by exgtt on Friday 1st June 13:06

So it wasn't hard to get hold of this illegal product? And your answer to the problem is to keep it illegal? Logic fail I'm afraid.

[exgtt]

TTwiggy said:

So it wasn't hard to get hold of this illegal product? And your answer to the problem is to keep it illegal? Logic fail I'm afraid.

Of course i seeked it out and got easy access. I didn't walk past a shop window and think ooohh i think i'll give coke a go. The consequences of the latter on the general public i find a bit disturbing.

[youngsyr]

exgtt said:

TTwiggy said:

So it wasn't hard to get hold of this illegal product? And your answer to the problem is to keep it illegal? Logic fail I'm afraid.

Of course i seeked it out and got easy access. I didn't walk past a shop window and think ooohh i think i'll give coke a go. The consequences of the latter on the general public i find a bit disturbing.

As a non-smoker, I can't say I've ever walked past a newsagents and thought, "ooohh I think I'll give cigarettes a go", even though I know plenty of people who smoke.

Just because something is readily available, it doesn't mean that everyone will try it, just as making something illegal won't stop those who want to try it from doing so.

[Halb]

Observations from when Portugal legalised it all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portug...