Is the UK tax system day light robbery
Discussion
RSoovy4 said:
Didn't say that at all, anywhere in my post.
I do think I should pay A LITTLE less towards the NHS because I don't use it. Perhaps a 25% discount.
If I was in the same position i think that it would irk me a little also but lets say (god forbid) that something serious happened to you, motor neurone disease for an example. Can you imaging the cost of lifetime treatment and care to the state? should there be a tally so that one day they knock on your door and say "Sorry, you have used up all the tax that you have paid. bye"I do think I should pay A LITTLE less towards the NHS because I don't use it. Perhaps a 25% discount.
I think thats why there is no real option but accept it all or accept none and leave.
The Vambo said:
RSoovy4 said:
Didn't say that at all, anywhere in my post.
I do think I should pay A LITTLE less towards the NHS because I don't use it. Perhaps a 25% discount.
If I was in the same position i think that it would irk me a little also but lets say (god forbid) that something serious happened to you, motor neurone disease for an example. Can you imaging the cost of lifetime treatment and care to the state? should there be a tally so that one day they knock on your door and say "Sorry, you have used up all the tax that you have paid. bye"I do think I should pay A LITTLE less towards the NHS because I don't use it. Perhaps a 25% discount.
I think thats why there is no real option but accept it all or accept none and leave.
RSoovy4 said:
If that happens I have insurance to provide my care until I die. Which obviously I fork out for. Obviously.
Would you be happy waive any future treatment for life for a reduction in your tax burden?Ps. I also have private medical cover after poor NHS treatment but I would feel very exposed in a USA type system.
Eric Mc said:
And so do I - it's called National Insurance and Tax - and that is the way I like to do it because I think of others as well as myself and/or my immediate family.
So do I Eric, you've really got me all wrong here I think.I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?
RSoovy4 said:
babatunde said:
Do you think you would have learned to read and write without taxation
Never used the NHS you say
So those inoculations you received as a child were paid for by whom
I'm sure you never want to the dentist as a child also? You
I pay a LOT of tax.Never used the NHS you say
So those inoculations you received as a child were paid for by whom
I'm sure you never want to the dentist as a child also? You
In relation to the above.
1. My son will go to private school which I will pay for, because I want him educated in a school where everyone speaks English as s first language - so I won't use that, but I still have to pay for state schools
2. My family has private health cover which I pay for, but I still have to pay for the state health service
3. My son will not have the MMR, he will have priavte seperate injections, which I will have to pay for, but I still have to....... well you get the picture.
Edited by RSoovy4 on Monday 18th March 09:33
And even some NHS services cannot be handled by private means (ambulances, A&E).
Tax is too high, no question. But your taxes maintain the fabric of society that you wouldn't get if you lived in somewhere with lower overall taxes.
RSoovy4 said:
So do I Eric, you've really got me all wrong here I think.
I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?
I think it would just end up incredibly complicated to try and manage, if you were run over tomorrow then would a private ambulance have to be called to scoop you up and whisk you away to a private hospital? Would pacifists be allowed to opt out of paying for defence costs?I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?
RSoovy4 said:
Eric Mc said:
And so do I - it's called National Insurance and Tax - and that is the way I like to do it because I think of others as well as myself and/or my immediate family.
So do I Eric, you've really got me all wrong here I think.I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?
What services do you chose not to use?
How do you value the services you chose not to use?
How do you know what services you THOUGHT you might never use but you end up using through force of circumstance later in your life?
What happens if one of the privately contracted services you paid for fails to deliver (it does happen - for all sorts of reasons)?
Eric Mc said:
RSoovy4 said:
Eric Mc said:
And so do I - it's called National Insurance and Tax - and that is the way I like to do it because I think of others as well as myself and/or my immediate family.
So do I Eric, you've really got me all wrong here I think.I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?
What services do you chose not to use?
How do you value the services you chose not to use?
How do you know what services you THOUGHT you might never use but you end up using through force of circumstance later in your life?
What happens if one of the privately contracted services you paid for fails to deliver (it does happen - for all sorts of reasons)?
Falls over all faint!
We have seen plenty of examples of private enterprise "services" (from banks to care homes) fall over and have to be bailed out by government funds.
Having profit motivated entities in place to provide crucial services can backfire massively for all sorts of reasons and can end up costing the taxpayer more money than if the service had been kept in public ownership.
We have seen plenty of examples of private enterprise "services" (from banks to care homes) fall over and have to be bailed out by government funds.
Having profit motivated entities in place to provide crucial services can backfire massively for all sorts of reasons and can end up costing the taxpayer more money than if the service had been kept in public ownership.
Eric Mc said:
Falls over all faint!
We have seen plenty of examples of private enterprise "services" (from banks to care homes) fall over and have to be bailed out by government funds.
Having profit motivated entities in place to provide crucial services can backfire massively for all sorts of reasons and can end up costing the taxpayer more money than if the service had been kept in public ownership.
100% agree with this post and its a face of todays world which angers me very much. Many of the services we used to have; public services are now privatized however the primary motive for these so called services are not to provide a good service to the tax payers who rightfully should expect it, its to make a profit. We have seen plenty of examples of private enterprise "services" (from banks to care homes) fall over and have to be bailed out by government funds.
Having profit motivated entities in place to provide crucial services can backfire massively for all sorts of reasons and can end up costing the taxpayer more money than if the service had been kept in public ownership.
Each and every person in this country is accountable for their actions, what wrongs they do and more specifically regarding an entity/person running a business they are accountable to ensure they provide the best service value for money service/goods. Why is the government not accountable for providing the services we deserve or pay for.
Who is checking or should be checking that a certain amount of money should be used for roads maintenance, NHS and schools, who is checking that the money is being spent well and we are getting good value for money; who is being held accountable.
In the current state of the country, essentially we are paying higher taxes and receiving a worse service.
User33678888 said:
Would you be in the position to be starting a company without the free education and healthcare you have benefited from over the last 27 years?
where do you get free healthcare? last time i looked both nurses and teachers in the uk are renumerated very nicely indeed.Eric Mc said:
RSoovy4 said:
Eric Mc said:
And so do I - it's called National Insurance and Tax - and that is the way I like to do it because I think of others as well as myself and/or my immediate family.
So do I Eric, you've really got me all wrong here I think.I do think that a man's main responsibility is to provide for his family. I am happy to help others, of course, but surely if the three of us don't ever intend to use, for example, the NHS, then it's not too much to ask (surely) that I be given a small proportion of credit for that, in order to better provide for my own brood?
What services do you chose not to use?
How do you value the services you chose not to use?
How do you know what services you THOUGHT you might never use but you end up using through force of circumstance later in your life?
What happens if one of the privately contracted services you paid for fails to deliver (it does happen - for all sorts of reasons)?
Also I am happy to pay taxes for services such as the NHS, Schools etc as it benefits us and also the wider community. Delving further into the NHS service I consider it more of an insurance policy. God forbid if I ever got cancer, or a life threatening illness then the NHS would be there (I hope) to take care of me. None of us can say we won't get sick.
PugwasHDJ80 said:
User33678888 said:
Would you be in the position to be starting a company without the free education and healthcare you have benefited from over the last 27 years?
where do you get free healthcare? last time i looked both nurses and teachers in the uk are renumerated very nicely indeed.If you are classed as certain types of immigrants it's free.
And on and on.
IATM said:
Delving further into the NHS service I consider it more of an insurance policy. God forbid if I ever got cancer, or a life threatening illness then the NHS would be there (I hope) to take care of me. None of us can say we won't get sick.
so lets all pay for healthcare on a compulsory insurance model- we can then choose our level of care, and there should be a tax on the insurance payments which is then used solely for those people who can't pay for their own care. If you are out of work, then you get free insurance for a period, but eventually it lapses to a minimum state.
As a business owner I used to get wound up by the myriad of different taxes here there and everywhere wich amount to a huge percentage of everything you earn and spend.
But then I just chose to look at it a different way.
If that figure is as high as 80% it doesnt really matter. Its 80% because thats what it costs. There is no escaping the fact that the Government doesnt take all our money and save it up in enormous vaults i.e. we are not being over taxed- it costs 80% of GDP to run the country. I'd actually infintiely rather it was dressed up as loads of different taxes than to actually see 80% leave my 'pay' each month.
But then I just chose to look at it a different way.
If that figure is as high as 80% it doesnt really matter. Its 80% because thats what it costs. There is no escaping the fact that the Government doesnt take all our money and save it up in enormous vaults i.e. we are not being over taxed- it costs 80% of GDP to run the country. I'd actually infintiely rather it was dressed up as loads of different taxes than to actually see 80% leave my 'pay' each month.
blindswelledrat said:
I'd actually infintiely rather it was dressed up as loads of different taxes than to actually see 80% leave my 'pay' each month.
I'd like to know the breakdown, but ideologically I'd prefer the simplicity and openness of a single tax, as blunt a tool as that would be.0000 said:
I'd like to know the breakdown, but ideologically I'd prefer the simplicity and openness of a single tax, as blunt a tool as that would be.
Perhaps. In theory, though, the multiple variants of tax enable governmetns to tax a bit more fairly and relevantly.eg road tax, VAT
In theory
A couple of points I think are worth mentioning;
Those people who have never used/will never use public services such as the NHS or education; what will you do if circumstances change and you're no longer able to go private? I'm not even sure if it's possible to get private A&E services (probably because it's a high overhead service with little potential for profits). I'd also suggest that BUPA and the like benefit significantly from NHS-trained staff.
Second point - a BIG factor in creating and sustaining the Private Sector is the intangible services that the Public sector provides auch as;
A healthy, educated workforce
A stable law-abiding society
Infrastructure such as roads, electricity, water, and communications.
There is little demand for Accountants, Lawyers, IT Contractors or powerfully built Carpet Warehouse millionaires in downtown Abuja.
This doesn't mean that the Public Sector isn't a bloated wasteful bureaucracy. In a lot of cases it could be better/more efficient. However there needs to be a balance; both sectors play a crucial part in creating a decent economy.
Those people who have never used/will never use public services such as the NHS or education; what will you do if circumstances change and you're no longer able to go private? I'm not even sure if it's possible to get private A&E services (probably because it's a high overhead service with little potential for profits). I'd also suggest that BUPA and the like benefit significantly from NHS-trained staff.
Second point - a BIG factor in creating and sustaining the Private Sector is the intangible services that the Public sector provides auch as;
A healthy, educated workforce
A stable law-abiding society
Infrastructure such as roads, electricity, water, and communications.
There is little demand for Accountants, Lawyers, IT Contractors or powerfully built Carpet Warehouse millionaires in downtown Abuja.
This doesn't mean that the Public Sector isn't a bloated wasteful bureaucracy. In a lot of cases it could be better/more efficient. However there needs to be a balance; both sectors play a crucial part in creating a decent economy.
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