Post EU renegotiation poll, have opinions changed?

[sparkythecat]

wc98 said:

i tend to agree with this.however, it would be interesting if someone could find any internet forum where the opposite voting intention is shown . i am a member of a couple of sea angling forums , a fairly different demographic (though a high number of anglers from all disciplines are also motoring/motorsport enthusiasts) that appear to be 50/50 left or right leaning,yet a similar voting intention is shown in polls.

maybe a yoghurt knitting forum is where all the pro remain people are ?

The reason that sea anglers, like myself, will voting to leave the EU can be summed up in just three words.....Common Fisheries Policy

[CaptainSlow]

plasticpig said:

The UK scores pretty low on the democracy scale.

No elected head of state.
No elected second chamber.
First past the post voting system is non representational.

But within the UK electorate's power to change if wanted.

The EU brings in rules and legislation and we can't do anything about it. Not even the Prime Minister of one of the largest economies that bankrolls the whole sham.

[rdjohn]

sparkythecat said:

The reason that sea anglers, like myself, will voting to leave the EU can be summed up in just three words.....Common Fisheries Policy

I do hope that someone remembers this when the negotiating chips are on the table after Brexit.

They should be paying us for the privilege.

[55palfers]

I have a funny feeling the country will vote to get out.

...swiftly followed by hasty backtracking from Brussels and a whole new set of (sweeter) UK membership T&Cs

[plasticpig]

Scuffers said:

really?

head of state has no role in management of the country - so irrelevant politically.
second chamber - House of Lords - yes, not ideal, but actually historically have done a pretty decent job, and most of them have been elected as MP/MEP's at some time in their past.
first past the post may not be great, but it's still an election where the electorate pick their government.


compared with the EU commision

Not elected,
lot of them are simply appointments based on who knows who

can you even name the UK's commissioner?

You appear not to understand how the EU works. The commission proposes legislation. It doesn't actually have the power to make that part of EU law. It has to be voted through the European council that consists of the heads of government for each member state and the EU parliament which represents the citizens of the EU and the citizens voted for. Once that has been done it's the commissions job to implement the law. Bear in mind that in some instances in the UK outline legislation is drafted by civil servants and then proposed to the minister for the department responsible.

If this is such a big problem for you then do you also have a problem with the fact the UK cabinet has members who are not elected? Do you have problem with the fact that the Prime Minister doesn't actually have to be an MP as the Prime Minister is appointed by monarch and they can appoint anyone they like.

[Scuffers]

plasticpig said:

You appear not to understand how the EU works. The commission proposes legislation. It doesn't actually have the power to make that part of EU law. It has to be voted through the European council that consists of the heads of government for each member state and the EU parliament which represents the citizens of the EU and the citizens voted for. Once that has been done it's the commissions job to implement the law. Bear in mind that in some instances in the UK outline legislation is drafted by civil servants and then proposed to the minister for the department responsible.

If this is such a big problem for you then do you also have a problem with the fact the UK cabinet has members who are not elected? Do you have problem with the fact that the Prime Minister doesn't actually have to be an MP as the Prime Minister is appointed by monarch and they can appoint anyone they like.

sorry, but your wrong.

UK ministers are elected to be MP's, then appointed as MP's to cabinet.

they still have to then get legislation passed by both houses.

EU commision are not elected, neither are the council of ministers.

[Pan Pan Pan]

55palfers said:

I have a funny feeling the country will vote to get out.

...swiftly followed by hasty backtracking from Brussels and a whole new set of (sweeter) UK membership T&Cs

I have read some articles that have alluded to this, and it is an interesting point. Currently there are a number of countries which take far more out of EU coffers than they put in, and of course it is in their vested interest to have the UK contributing much, much more than it gets out, so that the surplus can be sent the way of the net takers of EU cash.
It is no wonder then that 1. They don't want the UK the EU`s second largest net contributor of funds to leave, and 2. They don't want the current (dishonest) set up to change.
By leaving, the EU will come to truly realize how important the UK is to the survivability of the EU, and the effects of losing its second biggest funder, and biggest single market for EU goods and services.
It has been suggested that leaving the EU, will wake up the remaining members to their REAL position in the scheme of things, after which they will invite the UK to rejoin, but under terms very different to the onerous condition under which DeGaulle `allowed' the UK to join the Common market in 75.
It could be that not wanting to change, and liking the current corrupt set up, the other member states did not want to give the UK any meaningful reforms in CMD`s `DEAL'
Well voting out now, may still be the best way of securing much needed reforms to the corrupt dishonest way the EU is currently run.
As posted elsewhere initially I would have preferred to remain in a reformed EU, but as they currently have no intention of reforming, I am voting for out, but hoping that in the future Brexit will give the EU the kick up the backside to reform properly it so badly, badly needs.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 22 February 09:54

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 22 February 09:55

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 22 February 10:10

[Pan Pan Pan]

P.S I cannot get my head around the those who want to vote for continued membership of a known be failing, known to be dishonest, corrupt, patently unfair organization, unless of course they are among the troughers, the small group who are making something out of the current corrupt set up. They are clearly people who care more about `their' pockets, than the UK as a whole.

Edited by Pan Pan Pan on Monday 22 February 10:24

[plasticpig]

Scuffers said:

sorry, but your wrong.

UK ministers are elected to be MP's, then appointed as MP's to cabinet.

they still have to then get legislation passed by both houses.

EU commision are not elected, neither are the council of ministers.

There are members of the House of Lords in the cabinet .Baroness Stowell is in the cabinet and Lord O’Neill, Lord Ahmad and Baroness Anelay to name but 3 are ministers. Who voted for them?

The council of minsters represent each state. In most cases they will have been elected as MP's for the member nation and have been appointed ministers. So on the whole they are elected.







I

[don4l]

plasticpig said:

You appear not to understand how the EU works. The commission proposes legislation. It doesn't actually have the power to make that part of EU law. It has to be voted through the European council that consists of the heads of government for each member state and the EU parliament which represents the citizens of the EU and the citizens voted for. Once that has been done it's the commissions job to implement the law. Bear in mind that in some instances in the UK outline legislation is drafted by civil servants and then proposed to the minister for the department responsible.

If this is such a big problem for you then do you also have a problem with the fact the UK cabinet has members who are not elected? Do you have problem with the fact that the Prime Minister doesn't actually have to be an MP as the Prime Minister is appointed by monarch and they can appoint anyone they like.

You made up the bit that I highlighted.

The EU parliament does not even have to discuss proposed legislation.

[oyster]

danllama said:

If there is one result in my lifetime that's like to be rigged it's this referendum.

I'll be taking a permanent marker and voting OUT of this corrupt bullst!

Nothing will change my mind. Is there anything more embarrassing than being told what's what by the PM of Poland!?

What's embarrassing is a grown person (I assume you are) thinking the elected state of another nation should not express a stance.

Whether you agree with it or not is of course your free choice. But that's not what you're saying is it?

[plasticpig]

don4l said:

You made up the bit that I highlighted.

The EU parliament does not even have to discuss proposed legislation.

http://europa.eu/about-eu/institutions-bodies/european-parliament/index_en.htm

EU Parliament said:

Legislative Functions:

Passing EU laws, together with the Council of the EU, based on European Commission proposals
Deciding on international agreements
Deciding on enlargements
Reviewing the Commission's work programme and asking it to propose legislation.

So which bit of EU legislation has not been voted on by the EU parliament?

[Norfolkit]

55palfers said:

I have a funny feeling the country will vote to get out.

...swiftly followed by hasty backtracking from Brussels and a whole new set of (sweeter) UK membership T&Cs

Agree with that but after the complete fking shambles that Cameron made of the "renegotiations" he should have nothing to to with it (hopefully he'll have buggered off by then anyway). Also if we vote out who is to say we want someone to go back and have another go?

[v8250]

Norfolkit said:

Also if we vote out who is to say we want someone to go back and have another go?

And there-in lies our strength and a great opportunity. The EU-rocrats know they fked when we Brexit, which may well start an avalanche of demands from some other EU states. Brussels will not be able to control this. If Brussels were to try a re-negotiation with the UK, no right minded individual will have belief in that they'll honour and stand by their agreement/amended treaty or word. At this post Brexit point, the highly exciting post Brexit era, the UK will be holding all the trump cards of negotiation...immigration, economic, market share, market trade, CAP, fisheries, law, political independence, nation state independence...I'm sure to have missed many others. Simply, when we say no to a request from Brussels, it means NO...and with that NO comes strength in negotiation.

[wc98]

sparkythecat said:

The reason that sea anglers, like myself, will voting to leave the EU can be summed up in just three words.....Common Fisheries Policy

agreed. there are many parallels between the cfp and other eu driven policies all with similar negative results.

[Puggit]

Likely to be a legal challenge to the 'emergency brake':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...

[Scuffers]

Puggit said:

Likely to be a legal challenge to the 'emergency brake':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/e...

there's a surprise!

[Kermit power]

Before Cameron started negotiating, I was in favour of staying in the EU.

I thought the EU was in many ways broken, but that the best option was to work to fix it from within, so that we could be part of a group on a par with the US and China in terms of political clout.

Having seen the results of Cameron's negotiations, I will be voting to leave, as it has convinced me that it cannot be fixed.

[skahigh]

http://video.ft.com/4764529751001/Brexit-debated-E...

Sorry if pea roast, saw this on twitter tonight, thought it was an interesting little debate (very short).

[Northern Munkee]

skahigh said:

http://video.ft.com/4764529751001/Brexit-debated-E...

Sorry if pea roast, saw this on twitter tonight, thought it was an interesting little debate (very short).

FFS why did they shut it down just as it was getting interesting, it's not like there was ad break or time limit its the Internet.

ETA: how can Mandelson claim we would be militarily weaker with Brexit? we're In NATO and I'm sure the Germans, now the Poles, the Baltic states won't be asking us to leave.

Fairly clunky old format, reminds me of http://youtu.be/-sVlZ_SaKnk

Edited by Northern Munkee on Monday 22 February 23:51