UK Schools: Religious Freedom vs Secular Values Issue
Discussion
Countdown said:
It doesn't seem to be the lefties who are having trouble with this issue.Randy Winkman said:
Countdown said:
It doesn't seem to be the lefties who are having trouble with this issue.Countdown said:
Randy Winkman said:
Countdown said:
It doesn't seem to be the lefties who are having trouble with this issue.
ambuletz said:
kids in primary school don't really need to learn this. do it at secondary school as part of social/sex education studies. simple.
Some would say kids don't really need primary school.Finland for example ,
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/sep/20/...
But as far as kids learning all the different aspects that humanity encompasses , it's
never to early imo.
Don't forget, they f
k you up your parents do.Edited by gooner1 on Thursday 30th May 22:57
ambuletz said:
kids in primary school don't really need to learn this. do it at secondary school as part of social/sex education studies. simple.
What do you see as the harm? Assume you are aware many kids are aware they have a divergent sexuality prior to secondary school, and race and religious practices will be evident in primary school too. Saying these variances are ok can only be a good thing no?
Murph7355 said:
Plenty of people get comfort and solace out of it. And now living out in the sticks I can appreciate the sense of community it engenders.
Just because you can't see the point/don't need it/want it, doesn't make it wrong. Or something to be unduly ridiculed (certainly no more so than anything else). We all need to be careful of the "rank hypocrisy" others are noting - it is not restricted to those with religious beliefs.
Being open about religion and teaching about it is important IMO. Both the good and bad it has caused.
Totally agree Murph.Just because you can't see the point/don't need it/want it, doesn't make it wrong. Or something to be unduly ridiculed (certainly no more so than anything else). We all need to be careful of the "rank hypocrisy" others are noting - it is not restricted to those with religious beliefs.
Being open about religion and teaching about it is important IMO. Both the good and bad it has caused.
We have many Social problems to solve in this country, the gentile man who follows a simple set of guidance, lives a humble life and hits a tambourine on a Sunday is not one of them.
I have been watching some of the news on this and I can say that the Catholic school my daughter goes to adheres to the same balanced viewpoint that I was taught almost 30 years ago.
I think the schools that have been pointed out for redress have gone way off this balanced viewpoint on sexuality and have, quite rightly, had their hands slapped.
P.S - How do you know someone is an atheist on PH? don't worry they will be along to tell you shortly. Bam-Boom-Tsh! - Don't forget to tip your waitresses.
Halb said:
Randy Winkman said:
I agree. But some PHers have used this issue to suggest lefty liberalists are in a quandary.
Best to just scroll past that sort of twaddle.HTH
Jinx said:
The quandary is focused around the "protected" status of both sides in this issue. Similar to the feminists v trans debates. When both sides are playing the victim card you get a quandary.
HTH
From what I read earlier in the thread, there was no quandary.HTH
HTH
edit to add, it's not this thread, but some other thread talking about the same thing. THe protests against teaching kids about life in the UK
Edited by Halb on Friday 31st May 09:50
IN my opinion almost nursery ages kids do not need to know about this, in society it will become so obvious it will be as dismissed as racism is now, kids of this generation will be far less racist, simply as a by product of schooling and making friends without racism being present in their minds, schools, home life. You will still get the odd one whose parents are nasty or bigoted, but again that is part of society and normal life.
Same as same sex. Kids will start to see it at school, just as they play with black and Asian kids without thought.
You cannot force it, it will happen naturally in society. Sadly the people forcing it are usually the ones who felt left out as kids, and so try and drive it on unnaturally.
Same as same sex. Kids will start to see it at school, just as they play with black and Asian kids without thought.
You cannot force it, it will happen naturally in society. Sadly the people forcing it are usually the ones who felt left out as kids, and so try and drive it on unnaturally.
Jinx said:
The quandary is focused around the "protected" status of both sides in this issue. Similar to the feminists v trans debates. When both sides are playing the victim card you get a quandary.
HTH
Only if you view things in a very stilted, mechanical way when it comes to that "protected" status. There are people who manage to tie themselves in knots by not being able to handle that someone who is in one way "oppressed" cannot be the bad guy in another sense. But most people can navigate their way through this on a case by case basis without it really causing much conflict in their views.HTH
In this particular case, those protesting about the "LGBT agenda" are in the wrong. But you could have someone turn around and attack them tomorrow, and in that case, have them be the ones who are being wronged.
There's no contradiction in saying those who are right/wrong in one scenario are not so in another.
chunder27 said:
Same as same sex. Kids will start to see it at school, just as they play with black and Asian kids without thought.
Our school is very "white". There is one black child who just started in my daughters class. She came home and said "xyz is different daddy...." I prepared to respond in terms of the range of skin colour around the world, everyone is the same inside, etc.
..then she pipes up "xyz likes football and I don't... should I try to play football?"
As you say, it's only an issue if we make it so.
Countdown said:
Given that, in the bad/good old days most of us PHers had lots of helpings of religion spoon-fed to us (Morning assembly/hymn/prayers, RE lessons, Sunday School, Boys Brigade), how did we all manage to survive the brainwashing?
I have a feeling that the kids currently being brainwashed will be equally adept at "surviving". in relation to parents not being happy about their kids being taught sexy stuff.......
We were never harshly punished should we have renounced the faith, for a start...I have a feeling that the kids currently being brainwashed will be equally adept at "surviving". in relation to parents not being happy about their kids being taught sexy stuff.......
Countdown said:
Given that, in the bad/good old days most of us PHers had lots of helpings of religion spoon-fed to us (Morning assembly/hymn/prayers, RE lessons, Sunday School, Boys Brigade), how did we all manage to survive the brainwashing?
I have a feeling that the kids currently being brainwashed will be equally adept at "surviving". in relation to parents not being happy about their kids being taught sexy stuff.......
I went to a CofE school. Religion light as I call it now. More a collection of coffee mornings and good deeds.I have a feeling that the kids currently being brainwashed will be equally adept at "surviving". in relation to parents not being happy about their kids being taught sexy stuff.......
The head was very practical. She said that some people believe everything in this book. Others look at the stories and decide if they are good ways to lead your life and how to treat people (parables, etc)
Key is that you read as much as you can and you make up your own mind, but that her guidance was to have some core beliefs that guide you in life...
I grew up as an agnostic atheist, I don't believe in any god but cannot by definition prove that there is not one - I have a rigorous scientific challenge to the concept of god. The only reason I think that I am not a gnostic atheist is that the concept of what formed the big bang (and what formed the conditions for that to happen will always remain unprovable)
ambuletz said:
kids in primary school don't really need to learn this. do it at secondary school as part of social/sex education studies. simple.
Primary school goes up to 11 years old. I believe this is being covered in year 5, so 10 years old. Some of the kids will have entered puberty by then.10 years old is old enough to learn about same sex relationships. Not that they are better, or worse than heterosexual relationships, and not that it's compulsory. Just that it's a perfectly valid way to live. And that people who love each other live together and usually have a sexual relationship.
Anyone who thinks this is wrong...is wrong!
chunder27 said:
IN my opinion almost nursery ages kids do not need to know about this, in society it will become so obvious it will be as dismissed as racism is now, kids of this generation will be far less racist, simply as a by product of schooling and making friends without racism being present in their minds, schools, home life. You will still get the odd one whose parents are nasty or bigoted, but again that is part of society and normal life.
Same as same sex. Kids will start to see it at school, just as they play with black and Asian kids without thought.
You cannot force it, it will happen naturally in society. Sadly the people forcing it are usually the ones who felt left out as kids, and so try and drive it on unnaturally.
Your first paragraph is contradictory. Same as same sex. Kids will start to see it at school, just as they play with black and Asian kids without thought.
You cannot force it, it will happen naturally in society. Sadly the people forcing it are usually the ones who felt left out as kids, and so try and drive it on unnaturally.
Your last paragraph is just historically inaccurate, all these things are acceptable in modern Britain because people forced the issue.
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