How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 13)

[MDMetal]

I like how the quietest period is always the lunch hour

[vdn]

Pan Pan Pan said:

Fortunately not all remainers are anti democrats, so what this really comes down to is a competition, between those who believe in, and respect democracy, and those anti democrats who believe that democracy is only where it gives them the result they want, regardless of the result of any democratic vote held in the country.

That’s one view - another is that an electorate has a right to change its mind. May tried her deal how many times? But after three years, people are not given a choice on this WA.

I know a handful of people who have changed their minds (both ways). Some people have changed their mind; fact. How many? We don’t know. Hence the argument for a second ref’.

I was a Leaver but do not agree with this WA. You’re telling me I’m anti democratic to want a say?

As with many things; this isn’t black and white; it’s nuanced.

[abzmike]

So now the government are saying that if the timetable doesn't get signed off, they will pull the bill entirely.
You do get the impression they are making this up as they go along.

[bitchstewie]

When Alastair Campbell and Nigel Farage are retweeting one another in agreement something isn't right.

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/11865550...

[vdn]

bhstewie said:

When Alastair Campbell and Nigel Farage are retweeting one another in agreement something isn't right.

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/11865550...

The rollercoaster continues! I

[slow_poke]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Resulting in.....? The backstop becomes a frontstop, and the DUP end up with tyre thread-marks all over their backs?

[anonymous-user]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

It's quite the opposite actually.

It forced Boris to actually get a new deal, whereas his original plan was to run down the clock and blame the EU.

None of us really know what Boris's plan is/was.

[Robertj21a]

Bussolini said:

So basically you are afraid the electorate would vote Remain.

The real solution is to revoke the Article 50 notification and be done with this nonsense.

Ah, I understand. We just ignore a democratic vote because the minority don't like the decision. That sounds truly sensible, well done you.....

[Vanden Saab]

bhstewie said:

When Alastair Campbell and Nigel Farage are retweeting one another in agreement something isn't right. you know it is spot on

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/11865550...

FTFY

[The Don of Croy]

Will 'Brexit' be done before 'Brexit - The Movie' opens in Leicester Square?

You choose the cast...

[MDMetal]

Vanden Saab said:

bhstewie said:

When Alastair Campbell and Nigel Farage are retweeting one another in agreement something isn't right. you know it is spot on

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/11865550...

FTFY

They only agree as each of them thinks in a close run contest they can sway enough people to their side. Is it any wonder they're two of the most divisive people who are highly skilled at spinning situations to promote their own cause? All that tells you is the situation is as equally split as ever.

[JagLover]

abzmike said:

So now the government are saying that if the timetable doesn't get signed off, they will pull the bill entirely.
You do get the impression they are making this up as they go along.

Smart

Pointless passing a WA that has been destroyed with amendments.

Either pass it this week or they may change to a new strategy.

[Camoradi]

Blue62 said:

Camoradi said:

Labour's position: "3 days is not enough time for us to assess the detail of the deal, which we can already tell you we are definitely going to vote against"

There are just as many who have hailed it as a 'great deal' without reading or understanding the text, they're no better or worse.

That is almost certainly true, but they are however intelligent enough not to go on live TV saying. "It's a great deal, such a great deal that I've neither read it, nor understood it"

That's Trumps job

[bitchstewie]

Hey, let's just "get Brexit done".

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/22/d...

[Speed 3]

Speed 3 said:

My prediction:

EU will grant a “final” 3-month extension (Macron won’t allow anything further)
Bill will get bogged down in HoP debate, become unrecognisable from what is agreed in principle with EU
GE will be called before xmas (Government no confidence vote in itself if necessary)
Con/BP coalition win majority on a ticket of “just get it done”
We leave on 31/1/20 on whatever heads of terms the coalition agrees with each other to form a majority with/without EU agreement
We spend the next 15 years trying to get the actual deal done

Wheels in motion.....

bbc said:

The government will abandon its Brexit bill if MPs vote down its three-day timetable to get it through Parliament.

A No 10 source said if the programme was rejected and the EU confirmed a delay to 31 October UK exit, it would instead push for a general election.

The source told the BBC: "We won't waste further months with this Parliament."

[soupdragon1]

bhstewie said:

When Alastair Campbell and Nigel Farage are retweeting one another in agreement something isn't right.

https://twitter.com/campbellclaret/status/11865550...

In agreement, yes, however Nigel's version of Brexit throws NI under the bus - its just that Nigels is a fully loaded Double decker bus with Mad Max style dagger wheels and Boris' bus is like a minibus in comparison...

[Jazzer77]

Volume 13 and no sign of slowing down. Someone above mentioned Vol 20 and its on the cards.

Putin certainly got his money's worth.
For the cost of one T-90 tank he has broken a Country.

[arguti]

vdn said:

That’s one view - another is that an electorate has a right to change its mind. May tried her deal how many times? But after three years, people are not given a choice on this WA.

I know a handful of people who have changed their minds (both ways). Some people have changed their mind; fact. How many? We don’t know. Hence the argument for a second ref’.

I was a Leaver but do not agree with this WA. You’re telling me I’m anti democratic to want a say?

As with many things; this isn’t black and white; it’s nuanced.

On that note, it’s three years so entitled to change their mind... fair enough but when agreement morphed into EU then Maastricht then Lisbon and some posters stated we had not been consulted, the uniform answer was that it was in the relevant party’s election manifesto at the time yet now a general election is not relevant or applicable as it is too broad and mixes up other policies as well!

Do we need to have confirmatory vote every three years as the EU moves further, we join the euro, EU army etc ?

only a people’s confirmatory note is adequate whereas the last referendum was advisory only - do you not seem the hypocrisy?

[Pan Pan Pan]

vdn said:

Pan Pan Pan said:

Fortunately not all remainers are anti democrats, so what this really comes down to is a competition, between those who believe in, and respect democracy, and those anti democrats who believe that democracy is only where it gives them the result they want, regardless of the result of any democratic vote held in the country.

That’s one view - another is that an electorate has a right to change its mind. May tried her deal how many times? But after three years, people are not given a choice on this WA.

I know a handful of people who have changed their minds (both ways). Some people have changed their mind; fact. How many? We don’t know. Hence the argument for a second ref’.

I was a Leaver but do not agree with this WA. You’re telling me I’m anti democratic to want a say?

As with many things; this isn’t black and white; it’s nuanced.

Cannot disagree with that, People have the right to change their minds, the question is how often, every day, every week month or year?
The country however cannot be governed with referenda every few weeks, or with people changing their minds in quick succession
What is black and white however is the representative government giving the people of the UK the first and only referendum in over 23 years they have ever been given on the matter of the UK`s membership of the EU, and stating in black and white that they would abide by the result of that referendum.
What is black and white is that people should believe in, and respect democracy, even when a vote does not go the way that they wanted it to.
I would have no problem with the UK having another vote, in say 10 years time, to see if they want to stay out of, or go back into the EU, but to immediately start calling for another referendum, when the result of the first has not been enacted, is not democracy at all.
It is just a case of those who did not get the result they wanted in 2016 trying to overturn that democratic result, and it cannot be disguised as being anything other than that.
What is black and white is that people either respect democracy or they do not, there cannot be a grey area in-between.

[abzmike]

Speed 3 said:

BBC - The source told the BBC: "We won't waste further months with this Parliament."

They might not get the opportunity to waste futher months with Parliament. I seem to recall Mrs May held an election to strengthen her mandate, and that didn't quite work out as well as she hoped.