CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 11)

[johnboy1975]

n3il123 said:

Summer lockdown to protect the NHS

Fail link to Kent doom and gloom

at least we should all be able to have at least a meal or two and a couple of pints before, although maybe not if you haven't got your freedom pass...

<< At the stupidity of it. That's worthy of being a contender for "worst model of the pandemic".

Time will tell if they are right (they are not). I would have thought 20% of August 2020 would be nearer the mark? (Taking into account of the July 4th 2020 opening)

[monkfish1]

TwistingMyMelon said:

Elysium said:

SCEtoAUX said:

It's as clear as day to me, they are going to bring in what is basically a "social life passport". If you wish to go to any kind of venue, pub, restaurant, hotel, music event you will need a digital passport.

Coercion as clear as night follows day. They can't hold you down and force you to have a vaccine, but they can effectively stop people having any kind of social interraction and enjoyment to make the vaccine unavoidable.

They are going to force ten million young people to be injected with a drug that has absolutely no benefit to them.

Disgusting, tyrannical, draconian and downright evil.

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

I agree with both these points

I doubt vaccine passports will happen for social events and people are losing perspective on life

Its OK you doubting it, but its the PM that said it, so much as he is a moron with no morals, it does carry some weight.

[johnboy1975]

monkfish1 said:

johnboy1975 said:

Covid powers Bill gone through 484 - 76. 100 odd abstentions

408 majority. Entirely expected

20 labour (plus Corbyn)

Only 40ish of the covid recovery group, who number about 76 IIRC

SNP abstain? Thought they'd be voting...

Dissapointing, but expected. It seems thyere will be no end to this anytime soon then.

Is the "6 month" extension disingenuous? No chance they will relinquish those powers coming up to winter IMO. And will sail through by a similar margin no doubt

[CoolC]

monkfish1 said:

johnboy1975 said:

Covid powers Bill gone through 484 - 76. 100 odd abstentions

408 majority. Entirely expected

20 labour (plus Corbyn)

Only 40ish of the covid recovery group, who number about 76 IIRC

SNP abstain? Thought they'd be voting...

Dissapointing, but expected. It seems thyere will be no end to this anytime soon then.

Is there a list yet? I want to see if my local MP who posts on twitter repeatedly about the need to open up actually voted to stop this nonsense.

[Elysium]

johnboy1975 said:

n3il123 said:

Summer lockdown to protect the NHS

Fail link to Kent doom and gloom

at least we should all be able to have at least a meal or two and a couple of pints before, although maybe not if you haven't got your freedom pass...

<< At the stupidity of it. That's worthy of being a contender for "worst model of the pandemic".

Time will tell if they are right (they are not). I would have thought 20% of August 2020 would be nearer the mark? (Taking into account of the July 4th 2020 opening)

I think they have been talking to this chap, who has managed to cone to the conclusion that variants = extinction of the human race

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1375077491...

[Boringvolvodriver]

johnboy1975 said:

monkfish1 said:

johnboy1975 said:

Covid powers Bill gone through 484 - 76. 100 odd abstentions

408 majority. Entirely expected

20 labour (plus Corbyn)

Only 40ish of the covid recovery group, who number about 76 IIRC

SNP abstain? Thought they'd be voting...

Dissapointing, but expected. It seems thyere will be no end to this anytime soon then.

Is the "6 month" extension disingenuous? No chance they will relinquish those powers coming up to winter IMO. And will sail through by a similar margin no doubt

We have to prevent Another winter crisis along with just one more push will be the narrative in 6 months time - and how many of the masses will say “ that’s fine, it’s no bigee, if it saves one life” etc etc?

[anonymous-user]

Elysium said:

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

I agree.

It’s not workable.

Like the elderly and vulnerable should have stayed at home and shield so the rest of us could have got on with our lives was ‘impossible’ last year, making everyone have a new vaccine for spurious reasons is also ‘impossible’. I will not have it until plenty more time has passed and the long term risks have been fully assessed. I am not at statistically significant risk, I rode 280 miles on my motorcycle yesterday, I am more at risk of death doing that than covid. And my kids, no chance of them being jabbed for the foreseeable future.

I completely understand that pensioners are queuing up around the block to get jabbed, there isn’t much downside, any long term issues will have little concern, they’ll be dying of something else by then. But healthy young and middle aged people, thats a different proposition.

[TwistingMyMelon]

monkfish1 said:

TwistingMyMelon said:

Elysium said:

SCEtoAUX said:

It's as clear as day to me, they are going to bring in what is basically a "social life passport". If you wish to go to any kind of venue, pub, restaurant, hotel, music event you will need a digital passport.

Coercion as clear as night follows day. They can't hold you down and force you to have a vaccine, but they can effectively stop people having any kind of social interraction and enjoyment to make the vaccine unavoidable.

They are going to force ten million young people to be injected with a drug that has absolutely no benefit to them.

Disgusting, tyrannical, draconian and downright evil.

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

I agree with both these points

I doubt vaccine passports will happen for social events and people are losing perspective on life

Its OK you doubting it, but its the PM that said it, so much as he is a moron with no morals, it does carry some weight.

If it happens it happens, get jabbed or dont go. Lifes simple

[johnboy1975]

Boringvolvodriver said:

johnboy1975 said:

monkfish1 said:

johnboy1975 said:

Covid powers Bill gone through 484 - 76. 100 odd abstentions

408 majority. Entirely expected

20 labour (plus Corbyn)

Only 40ish of the covid recovery group, who number about 76 IIRC

SNP abstain? Thought they'd be voting...

Dissapointing, but expected. It seems thyere will be no end to this anytime soon then.

Is the "6 month" extension disingenuous? No chance they will relinquish those powers coming up to winter IMO. And will sail through by a similar margin no doubt

We have to prevent Another winter crisis along with just one more push will be the narrative in 6 months time - and how many of the masses will say “ that’s fine, it’s no bigee, if it saves one life” etc etc?

According to that Mail link, Kent are preparing for a summer crisis. (Imagine what they will forecast for winter)

I'm all for being prepared.....what does that mean in practice? Cancelled electives and empty beds "just in case"? Have they not seen the waiting lists????

[danny tattersall]

Nickgnome said:

Smollet said:

Ntv said:

I do think state pension should be zero increase FWIW

Care to explain unless of course you think pensioners are exempt from cost of living increases in food, utilities, council tax etc??

Affordability? Unfortunately we have an unsustainable model. Expecting the working population to support non working pensioners is fundamentally wrong.

It will take decades to unwind and i see no appetite for any party to take on the challenge to insist that every individual is forced to save for the own retirement.

Nick, I disagree with quite a lot of what you say but think you are absolutely right in this case. IMHO pension schemes are Ponzi schemes and there will be a day of reckoning.

[Boringvolvodriver]

soofsayer said:

Elysium said:

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

I agree.

It’s not workable.

Like the elderly and vulnerable should have stayed at home and shield so the rest of us could have got on with our lives was ‘impossible’ last year, making everyone have a new vaccine for spurious reasons is also ‘impossible’. I will not have it until plenty more time has passed and the long term risks have been fully assessed. I am not at statistically significant risk, I rode 280 miles on my motorcycle yesterday, I am more at risk of death doing that than covid. And my kids, no chance of them being jabbed for the foreseeable future.

I completely understand that pensioners are queuing up around the block to get jabbed, there isn’t much downside, any long term issues will have little concern, they’ll be dying of something else by then. But healthy young and middle aged people, thats a different proposition.

Agree with this. It is the coercion via the back door that I object to.

My risk of covid is pretty low, according the Oxford university thing, I came out at 1 in 7866 risk of death compared to a natural risk of 1 in 112.

Won’t be rushing for the vaccine just yet - if it means no pub or restaurant for me, then so be it - I am sure there will be some places that will let the “unclean” in. Likewise holidays abroad - I will have to give those a miss too for a while.

Prefer to see how the dust settles before rushing to have something put into my body. My body, my choice!

[981C]

Elysium said:

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

There are vaccinated folks out there right now still wearing masks whilst driving (on their own) in their cars. These folks ain't ever taking these off.

[Ntv]

Smollet said:

Ntv said:

I do think state pension should be zero increase FWIW

Care to explain unless of course you think pensioners are exempt from cost of living increases in food, utilities, council tax etc??

Nobody has just the state pension. Or if they do there are other substantial benefits they are entitled to.

But this is a case of sharing the pain fairly. Public sector pay freeze. Many pay freezes and reductions in the private sector, and much worse, unemployment for hundreds of thousands, probably millions over time.

A huge cost has been imposed on society for the benefit of the elderly.

Care to explain why you think they should be exempt from also making a contribution towards that cost?

[Terminator X]

This is from the Govt "nudge dept" which I note has now been split from the Govt, interesting to see what they say about vaccine messages used to increase uptake:

https://www.bi.team/blogs/four-messages-that-can-i...

"1. Helping Loved Ones tapped into people’s desire to protect and support their friends and family.

2. Approved by Healthcare Workers used the credibility and authority of healthcare workers as trusted messengers.

3. Getting Lives Back drew on the powerful motivation to return to the activities and people they are missing, without promising that life will ever fully go back to “normal.”

4. Tested by Thousands built trust in the vaccine development process, without getting bogged down in overly technical details or medical jargon."

TX.

[RSTurboPaul]

SCEtoAUX said:

It's as clear as day to me, they are going to bring in what is basically a "social life passport". If you wish to go to any kind of venue, pub, restaurant, hotel, music event you will need a digital passport.

Coercion as clear as night follows day. They can't hold you down and force you to have a vaccine, but they can effectively stop people having any kind of social interraction and enjoyment to make the vaccine unavoidable.

They are going to force ten million young people to be injected with a drug that has absolutely no benefit to them.

Disgusting, tyrannical, draconian and downright evil.

And again in Autumn.

And again next year.

And the year after.

And...

[ChrisW_77]

Toyoda said:

Can't the mods carry over the bans from previous volumes to subsequent volumes?

+1. Didn't take long did it?

[RSTurboPaul]

London424 said:

Ntv said:

Nickgnome said:

oyster said:

To add:
Public sector workers - pay freeze
Pensioners - inflation-busting pay rise

I am one of those pensioners and for many of us it is entirely wrong.

However there are millions of pensioners whose only income is that state pension It is about £175/week which does not go far if you are in rented accommodation.

To be fair, housing benefit and Pension Credit would be available to many such people.

But your point is a fair one.

I do think state pension should be zero increase FWIW

The public sector freeze also isn’t correct. They’ll still move an increment on the scale.

Not all the public sector automatically get an increment. Many are moving (already moved) to a Performance Related Pay regime, which sees lower value increments and 'one off bonuses' that mean lower pension contributions in the longer term and much longer timescales needed to 'climb the ladder' between the bottom and top of pay scales.

[RSTurboPaul]

Boringvolvodriver said:

Latest tweet from Hancock

https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/13750982371...

So if that is the case, why do we still have restrictions?

Hancock Tweet said:

I’m delighted that uptake of the vaccine is now 95% amongst over 60s & that the protection against dying is 85%

The vaccine is safe, effective & our route to normal.

So we're not calling it 'new normal' now?

So testing and jabbing and a checkpoint society is just 'normal'?

Riiight.

[Elysium]

Terminator X said:

This is from the Govt "nudge dept" which I note has now been split from the Govt, interesting to see what they say about vaccine messages used to increase uptake:

https://www.bi.team/blogs/four-messages-that-can-i...

"1. Helping Loved Ones tapped into people’s desire to protect and support their friends and family.

2. Approved by Healthcare Workers used the credibility and authority of healthcare workers as trusted messengers.

3. Getting Lives Back drew on the powerful motivation to return to the activities and people they are missing, without promising that life will ever fully go back to “normal.”

4. Tested by Thousands built trust in the vaccine development process, without getting bogged down in overly technical details or medical jargon."

TX.

I can live with this. In fact I broadly support the promotion of vaccination.

When it turns into coercion it crosses the line. The third one sails close to that. Vaccination can help us return to normal life, but it should never be an express condition of it.

[SCEtoAUX]

TwistingMyMelon said:

monkfish1 said:

TwistingMyMelon said:

Elysium said:

SCEtoAUX said:

It's as clear as day to me, they are going to bring in what is basically a "social life passport". If you wish to go to any kind of venue, pub, restaurant, hotel, music event you will need a digital passport.

Coercion as clear as night follows day. They can't hold you down and force you to have a vaccine, but they can effectively stop people having any kind of social interraction and enjoyment to make the vaccine unavoidable.

They are going to force ten million young people to be injected with a drug that has absolutely no benefit to them.

Disgusting, tyrannical, draconian and downright evil.

I was worried about the vaccination of the at risk groups, but that seems to have worked out.

I actually think its going to be OK and that the vaccine passport bks is going to turn out to be just that. bks. I'm probably wrong, but I have decided to be optimistic about it.

I have come to the conclusion that this has driven a form of mental illness in most people, causing them to lose their sense of proportion and morality. Its going to be interesting to see how this is going to unwind. In the meantime, most people, including me, are already ignoring the lockdown.

I agree with both these points

I doubt vaccine passports will happen for social events and people are losing perspective on life

Its OK you doubting it, but its the PM that said it, so much as he is a moron with no morals, it does carry some weight.

If it happens it happens, get jabbed or dont go. Lifes simple

But it isn't that simple, and people live under the tyranny they will tolerate. Always have done, always will. As soon as they have a working system that requires everyone to have a digital passport on their phone, they will use it in every way possible to control freedoms.

Next will be the winter flu jab. Not had one? Well you can't come in to this pub, we're protecting other people you see,
Job interviews... "Ever had a drugs problem or been treated for depression?" Show use your phone please.
Want to fly somewhere? Show your digital health passport at check-in, we don't want people on our plane who haven't had the booster for the Norwegian varient.

Far fetched? Possibly. But there has not been one single act undertaken, not one single statement, not one policy decision by this Government that suggests to me that they have any intention of returning the kind of freedoms to people that they had before COVID. Yes, the restrictions are easing, but just today the powers have been extended for months.