Ped gets 3 years for manslaughter of cyclist hit by car…
Discussion
spikyone said:
The victim was a 77 year old woman on a shopping bike. She may well have not been confident cycling in the road. Had this been some "lycra lout" (copyright - Daily Mail) barrelling along at warp speed, or a kid on a BMX acting like a t
t, I might have some sympathy for the view that it wasn't a bike path (and given the width, it appears that it isn't). Whether or not it was a designated bike path in this case shouldn't even come into the discussion.
That's not to advocate for the law to be changed or ignored; simply that "is it acceptable to cycle on a footpath?" is not always black and white. Was it reasonable for the cyclist to be there? On balance, yes. Was it reasonable for the pedestrian to behave as she did? Probably not.
I completely understand the point of view that a jail term feels harsh if there was no contact or push. If there was contact then she deserves every minute of it.
Not that it should matter but on this point, the Judge said in their sentencing remarks that it was a shared cycleway.t, I might have some sympathy for the view that it wasn't a bike path (and given the width, it appears that it isn't). Whether or not it was a designated bike path in this case shouldn't even come into the discussion.That's not to advocate for the law to be changed or ignored; simply that "is it acceptable to cycle on a footpath?" is not always black and white. Was it reasonable for the cyclist to be there? On balance, yes. Was it reasonable for the pedestrian to behave as she did? Probably not.
I completely understand the point of view that a jail term feels harsh if there was no contact or push. If there was contact then she deserves every minute of it.
Further up the road (same side)
I had a quick click around and couldn't find any signage to indicate the shared route had finished
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.3332893,-0.18505...
Punishment seems fair, someone died as a result of another's actions. Whether contact was made is irrelevant really, jerking hands near a person's face is going to make them jump, on a bike that will affect your direction of travel, in this case off a kerb increasing instability.
I used to cycle daily on a pavement near me as, even though it's a 30 limit and I could keep up a good pace, the road is busy and speeds are often a lot over the limit; a couple of years before covid the council fitted dropped kerbs and made it a foot/cycle path, so my assessment seemed vindicated. I don't know the route this lady was taking, but she obviously didn't feel safe on the road, and may have had good reason.
I used to cycle daily on a pavement near me as, even though it's a 30 limit and I could keep up a good pace, the road is busy and speeds are often a lot over the limit; a couple of years before covid the council fitted dropped kerbs and made it a foot/cycle path, so my assessment seemed vindicated. I don't know the route this lady was taking, but she obviously didn't feel safe on the road, and may have had good reason.
I think this case just demonstrates the insanity of the current direction that cycling / road laws are going.
You have cyclists who think they can ride where ever they want, shared spaces innit.
You have pedestrians who think they can do anything, dont need to wait to cross a road now, *I* have right of way.
Other road users not got a clue whats going on who to give way too and when to do it.
Its a total mess.
Is it a shock that some nutter then takes it upon themselves to shove granny off her bike. Nope.
We really do need to educate people that whilst there is having right of way the impact of a 2000kg SUV is the same if you have right of way or not.
As for this loon, she needed more than 3 years. I am willing to bet its not the first time she has done this either.
You have cyclists who think they can ride where ever they want, shared spaces innit.
You have pedestrians who think they can do anything, dont need to wait to cross a road now, *I* have right of way.
Other road users not got a clue whats going on who to give way too and when to do it.
Its a total mess.
Is it a shock that some nutter then takes it upon themselves to shove granny off her bike. Nope.
We really do need to educate people that whilst there is having right of way the impact of a 2000kg SUV is the same if you have right of way or not.
As for this loon, she needed more than 3 years. I am willing to bet its not the first time she has done this either.
I have no problem with cyclists on the pavement if they take care and they are not some head down roadie - there is space for everyone.
Loads of kids cycle to school when I go for my morning run - I would much rather them join me on the pavement than the road with frenetic commuters late for work in their cars. Similarly pensioners who are just popping off to the shops with laden baskets should absolutely be on the pavement for everyones safety too.
Loads of kids cycle to school when I go for my morning run - I would much rather them join me on the pavement than the road with frenetic commuters late for work in their cars. Similarly pensioners who are just popping off to the shops with laden baskets should absolutely be on the pavement for everyones safety too.
EmailAddress said:
I made it from the first video I came across. There was no more to the right.
To me it looks like there is enough room for the walker to take a step to her right.
But equally, cyclist is going too fast if she was unable to simply put her feet down to stop.
Walker has slow reactions and knocks cyclists upper arm forcing the turn once the bike is almost 3/4s past.
Riding along with a bag thrown on one shoulder is not good for balance either.
Sad turn of events all round.
cycling too fast?To me it looks like there is enough room for the walker to take a step to her right.
But equally, cyclist is going too fast if she was unable to simply put her feet down to stop.
Walker has slow reactions and knocks cyclists upper arm forcing the turn once the bike is almost 3/4s past.
Riding along with a bag thrown on one shoulder is not good for balance either.
Sad turn of events all round.
a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
ambuletz said:
cycling too fast?
a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
You can't just make bits up - she didn't shove her.a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
Lord Marylebone said:
usn90 said:
I’m sorry, It’s not in my nature to be on the cyclists side, but what are some of you even smoking as I’d like some.
The accused clearly makes a pushing action, at the very same time the cyclist loses control and falls in the direction the force of the push would have sent her, I’d bet a good proportion of young/middle aged cyclists would
Struggle to remain in control let alone a 77 year old lady
The cyclist shouldn’t have been on the path no, but then again getting killed over it is extreme
Sentence well placed, but then again if that was my mum I’d be pushing the cow off a bridge
Indeed.The accused clearly makes a pushing action, at the very same time the cyclist loses control and falls in the direction the force of the push would have sent her, I’d bet a good proportion of young/middle aged cyclists would
Struggle to remain in control let alone a 77 year old lady
The cyclist shouldn’t have been on the path no, but then again getting killed over it is extreme
Sentence well placed, but then again if that was my mum I’d be pushing the cow off a bridge
If you full screen the video and watch carefully, you can even see the elbow of the accused move in the pushing motion towards the cyclist, as her body twists, at that exactly moment.
Absolutely pushed her. If you can't see that, then I have no idea what to say.
ro250 said:
You can't just make bits up - she didn't shove her.
You can clearly see that she did if you full-screen a good quality version of the video and look carefully. You can see her body and elbow/arm move towards the cyclist which coincides with the cyclist jerking towards the road. It certainly looks like a push to me, and to others in the thread.Also, in the BBC report above the accused actually admitted she 'may have put her hand up and made contract with the cyclist'... she pushed her.
ro250 said:
ambuletz said:
cycling too fast?
a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
You can't just make bits up - she didn't shove her.a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
EmailAddress said:
I made it from the first video I came across. There was no more to the right.
I wouldn't know how to embed it, but this video is pretty conclusive on the shove from the half-speed footage at the end:[uploaded onto youtube below]
Edited by ScotHill on Thursday 2nd March 16:13
I don't think the ped did enough wrong to end up in jail. She looked like she was trying to gesticulate that the cyclist should be on the road, which is correct. Despite her actions being objectionable, there is no way she would have considered her actions to be dangerous to the cyclist. And I'm not seeing the push that has been spotted by others here. To me it looks like the cyclist tried to go round the ped and went off the edge of the pavement, causing her to lose control.
Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
gotoPzero said:
You have cyclists who think they can ride where ever they want, shared spaces innit.
You have pedestrians who think they can do anything, dont need to wait to cross a road now, *I* have right of way.
Other road users not got a clue whats going on who to give way too and when to do it.
Its a total mess.
Is it a shock that some nutter then takes it upon themselves to shove granny off her bike. Nope.
Shared spaces are shared.You have pedestrians who think they can do anything, dont need to wait to cross a road now, *I* have right of way.
Other road users not got a clue whats going on who to give way too and when to do it.
Its a total mess.
Is it a shock that some nutter then takes it upon themselves to shove granny off her bike. Nope.
Yes, you have to look for pedestrians.
If other road users are confused then they need to hand in their driving license.
It’s not complicated. If you think this is the inevitable result of the law then please stop driving before you kill someone.
LunarOne said:
I don't think the ped did enough wrong to end up in jail. She looked like she was trying to gesticulate that the cyclist should be on the road, which is correct. Despite her actions being objectionable, there is no way she would have considered her actions to be dangerous to the cyclist. And I'm not seeing the push that has been spotted by others here. To me it looks like the cyclist tried to go round the ped and went off the edge of the pavement, causing her to lose control.
Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
It was a shared path and she admitted pushing the cyclist.Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
JQ said:
ro250 said:
ambuletz said:
cycling too fast?
a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
You can't just make bits up - she didn't shove her.a 79 year old?
on a bromley/folding bike?
c'mon.
if i'm walking along a pavement and see someone cycling towards me I move to one side and carry on. interraction over.
i dont do what she done which was walk down the middle of the pavement, not move aside, but instead yell and shove someone into the road. she deserves her jail sentence.
LunarOne said:
I don't think the ped did enough wrong to end up in jail. She looked like she was trying to gesticulate that the cyclist should be on the road, which is correct. Despite her actions being objectionable, there is no way she would have considered her actions to be dangerous to the cyclist. And I'm not seeing the push that has been spotted by others here. To me it looks like the cyclist tried to go round the ped and went off the edge of the pavement, causing her to lose control.
Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
She caused her death. If that isn’t worth jail we may as well not have them. Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
LunarOne said:
I don't think the ped did enough wrong to end up in jail. She looked like she was trying to gesticulate that the cyclist should be on the road, which is correct. Despite her actions being objectionable, there is no way she would have considered her actions to be dangerous to the cyclist. And I'm not seeing the push that has been spotted by others here. To me it looks like the cyclist tried to go round the ped and went off the edge of the pavement, causing her to lose control.
Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
Try reading the definition of manslaughter that was linked to earlier and see if you have the same view. Given that the offender has apparently admitted to making contact with the cyclist, the latter losing control of her bike is entirely predictable (anyone who has ridden a bike will know this, it takes very little to lose balance if the handlebars are knocked - and don't read this as the ped knocking the bars please, it's just the consequence of a rider's arm being impacted with)Tragic accident, but nothing more than that.
Electro1980 said:
It was a shared path and she admitted pushing the cyclist.
Exactly. People need to actually read what the Judge has said to be true in this case and stop applying their own bias and making things up.
The Judge is satisfied that the section of path in question is a shared one.
The Judge did not feel that the cyclist was travelling at excessive speed.
The Judge did not accept the Defendant's excuses and disability as being relevant to her reaction.
The Judge decided that the Defendants alarmist gesturing was uncalled for and ultimately caused the elderly cyclist to lose balance.
Given the information available in the Public domain for this Case, I think the Judge called it correctly. The Defendant caused the accident and deserves her sentence. Personally, I think she got off lightly.
I discovered a lovely network of shared paths only this morning on my daily ride and took advantage of using them (and I'm a paid-up fanatical 'lycra lout') They are signposted as such but for great lengths there is no signage - it is only necessary where it begins and ends.
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