British Empire in a 1000 years
Discussion
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Actually, Britain played a huge part in the whole Slave trade.
There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
And science.There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
350GT said:
Traveller said:
Sheets Tabuer said:
To be fair the "concentration" camps used in south africa were a far cry from the ones used in Germany and it is a cheap shot to imply they were.
Cheap shot ? over 30 000 only women and children killed through malnutrition and disease, simply because Britain wanted the mineral resources of Southern Africa. No cheap shot, factual. Britain coined the term concentration camp.http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O48-concentration...
Either way, it is something abhorrent about "empires", this goes to my point that the British empire was not view in the rest of the world in a positive light. The Chinese, large swathes of the African continent, India, even Ireland do not see it as a positive part of their countries development. It will be remembered in the Britain as positive, as you would expect, but not many of the colonised areas indigenous population would see it as a positive thing.
Edited by Traveller on Tuesday 31st March 14:58
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Actually, Britain played a huge part in the whole Slave trade.
There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
Of course the USA benefited hugely by using the slaves and selling the goods produced by slaves, some of which would be shipped back on British ships of course.There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
When Britian abolished slavery the British taxpayer had to compensate companies for loss of profit !!
America carried on with slavery for quite a while after Britain. Can't remember the exact number, I'd have to nip into Wilberforce House to check....
Traveller said:
a rather British centric view here, the rest of the world might not remember the "empire" quite as fondly. Even your friendly neighbours, Ireland are not quite so enamoured with the great empire.
We are talking about in a thousand years time.That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissapate and more objective judgements be made.
JagLover said:
Traveller said:
a rather British centric view here, the rest of the world might not remember the "empire" quite as fondly. Even your friendly neighbours, Ireland are not quite so enamoured with the great empire.
We are talking about in a thousand years time.That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissapate and more objective judgements be made.
As I said earlier, we don't exactly have any visible resentment of Rome's little British experiment.
JagLover said:
Traveller said:
a rather British centric view here, the rest of the world might not remember the "empire" quite as fondly. Even your friendly neighbours, Ireland are not quite so enamoured with the great empire.
We are talking about in a thousand years time.That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissipate and more objective judgements be made.
JagLover said:
...
That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissapate and more objective judgements be made.
IMHO a very good point that.That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissapate and more objective judgements be made.
People would prefer to live in their own mess than be controlled by someone else even if the latter would actually make them better off.
Well apart from the benefit underclass in this country, but that's off topic
RichardD said:
JagLover said:
...
That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissapate and more objective judgements be made.
IMHO a very good point that.That is plenty of time for Nationalist resentments over being ruled by Foreigners to dissapate and more objective judgements be made.
People would prefer to live in their own mess than be controlled by someone else even if the latter would actually make them better off.
RichardD said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Actually, Britain played a huge part in the whole Slave trade.
There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
Of course the USA benefited hugely by using the slaves and selling the goods produced by slaves, some of which would be shipped back on British ships of course.There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
When Britian abolished slavery the British taxpayer had to compensate companies for loss of profit !!
America carried on with slavery for quite a while after Britain. Can't remember the exact number, I'd have to nip into Wilberforce House to check....
Lets not mistake the fact the US was the biggest factor of the Slave Trade. There would not have been one without the US probably, and there certainly would have been no business opportunity for Britain if it wasnt for the US.
Thats not to say Britain didn't play a part in the whole mess though
Edited by Spiritual_Beggar on Tuesday 31st March 15:11
Traveller said:
350GT said:
Traveller said:
Sheets Tabuer said:
To be fair the "concentration" camps used in south africa were a far cry from the ones used in Germany and it is a cheap shot to imply they were.
Cheap shot ? over 30 000 only women and children killed through malnutrition and disease, simply because Britain wanted the mineral resources of Southern Africa. No cheap shot, factual. Britain coined the term concentration camp.http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1O48-concentration...
Either way, it is something abhorrent about "empires", this goes to my point that the British empire was not view in the rest of the world in a positive light. The Chinese, large swathes of the African continent, India, even Ireland do not see it as a positive part of their countries development. It will be remembered in the Britain as positive, as you would expect, but not many of the colonised areas indigenous population would see it as a positive thing.
Edited by Traveller on Tuesday 31st March 14:58
Spiritual_Beggar said:
RichardD said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Actually, Britain played a huge part in the whole Slave trade.
There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
Of course the USA benefited hugely by using the slaves and selling the goods produced by slaves, some of which would be shipped back on British ships of course.There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
When Britian abolished slavery the British taxpayer had to compensate companies for loss of profit !!
America carried on with slavery for quite a while after Britain. Can't remember the exact number, I'd have to nip into Wilberforce House to check....
Lets not mistake the fact the US was the biggest factor of the Slave Trade. There would not have been one without the US probably, and there certainly would have been no business opportunity for Britain if it wasnt for the US.
Thats not to say Britain didn't play a small part in the whole mess.
I very much doubt the British Empire will be placed by history in the same league as the Greek and Roman empires. There are a few reasons for my opinion:
1. Longevity - the British Empire lasted for only a few decades, say from the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 to Indian independence in 1947. The Classical empires lasted for hundred of years.
2. Monuments - The Greeks and Romans left a legacy of huge monumental architecture in the places they conquered. We left a few railway lines.
3. Golden Ageism - The Classical empires were looked back on as a Golden Age, as the world reverted to the dark ages. There is little chance of anyone looking upon the BE as a Golden Age.
4. Great Ideas - The Classical Empires gave birth to new ideas about democracy, statehood, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, etc. The BE gave the world cheap cotton.
5. Safety - The Classical empires were completely demolished and left no real continuity and so the rest of the world could safely respect them as you can respect a dead enemy. The ghost of the BE will linger on as long as the UK remains independent and so the rest of the world is not in a position to respect the BE.
IMHO the British Empire will be seen as a time when the Industrial Revolution gave Britain a slight technological head-start over the rest of the world and they used this head-start to take advantage of less developed countries economically.
1. Longevity - the British Empire lasted for only a few decades, say from the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 to Indian independence in 1947. The Classical empires lasted for hundred of years.
2. Monuments - The Greeks and Romans left a legacy of huge monumental architecture in the places they conquered. We left a few railway lines.
3. Golden Ageism - The Classical empires were looked back on as a Golden Age, as the world reverted to the dark ages. There is little chance of anyone looking upon the BE as a Golden Age.
4. Great Ideas - The Classical Empires gave birth to new ideas about democracy, statehood, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, etc. The BE gave the world cheap cotton.
5. Safety - The Classical empires were completely demolished and left no real continuity and so the rest of the world could safely respect them as you can respect a dead enemy. The ghost of the BE will linger on as long as the UK remains independent and so the rest of the world is not in a position to respect the BE.
IMHO the British Empire will be seen as a time when the Industrial Revolution gave Britain a slight technological head-start over the rest of the world and they used this head-start to take advantage of less developed countries economically.
Bushmaster said:
I very much doubt the British Empire will be placed by history in the same league as the Greek and Roman empires. There are a few reasons for my opinion:
1. Longevity - the British Empire lasted for only a few decades, say from the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 to Indian independence in 1947. The Classical empires lasted for hundred of years.
2. Monuments - The Greeks and Romans left a legacy of huge monumental architecture in the places they conquered. We left a few railway lines.
3. Golden Ageism - The Classical empires were looked back on as a Golden Age, as the world reverted to the dark ages. There is little chance of anyone looking upon the BE as a Golden Age.
4. Great Ideas - The Classical Empires gave birth to new ideas about democracy, statehood, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, etc. The BE gave the world cheap cotton.
5. Safety - The Classical empires were completely demolished and left no real continuity and so the rest of the world could safely respect them as you can respect a dead enemy. The ghost of the BE will linger on as long as the UK remains independent and so the rest of the world is not in a position to respect the BE.
IMHO the British Empire will be seen as a time when the Industrial Revolution gave Britain a slight technological head-start over the rest of the world and they used this head-start to take advantage of less developed countries economically.
1) The British Empire spanned approx 500 years in one form or another.1. Longevity - the British Empire lasted for only a few decades, say from the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 to Indian independence in 1947. The Classical empires lasted for hundred of years.
2. Monuments - The Greeks and Romans left a legacy of huge monumental architecture in the places they conquered. We left a few railway lines.
3. Golden Ageism - The Classical empires were looked back on as a Golden Age, as the world reverted to the dark ages. There is little chance of anyone looking upon the BE as a Golden Age.
4. Great Ideas - The Classical Empires gave birth to new ideas about democracy, statehood, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, etc. The BE gave the world cheap cotton.
5. Safety - The Classical empires were completely demolished and left no real continuity and so the rest of the world could safely respect them as you can respect a dead enemy. The ghost of the BE will linger on as long as the UK remains independent and so the rest of the world is not in a position to respect the BE.
IMHO the British Empire will be seen as a time when the Industrial Revolution gave Britain a slight technological head-start over the rest of the world and they used this head-start to take advantage of less developed countries economically.
2) You are joking. Take a look at the Imperial buildings and monuments in India.
3) Many African countries DO look at it as a golden age. Sierra Leone recently asked to come back.
4) Joking again. It was Britain that took democracy,science and industry to huge sections of the world. Not to mention the particular brand of pragmatic philosophy that Britain evolved.
5) Its already happening.
s2art said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
RichardD said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
Actually, Britain played a huge part in the whole Slave trade.
There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
Of course the USA benefited hugely by using the slaves and selling the goods produced by slaves, some of which would be shipped back on British ships of course.There was a cycle;
Ships from Britain (Liverpool mainly), sailed to Africa, picked up slaves, and took them to the USA. Te profits from sale in the US were then sailed back to Blighty. That was how the trade worked.
There is absolutely no denying Britains involvement in the Slave Trade!
With regards to Democracy....this is true.
After the Greeks and Romans disappeared, most countries reverted to a feudal system. Which is why Monachys reigned supreme in Europe for the most part of the last Millenium.
Britain was one of the first countries to dissolve the Feudal system and approach a more democratic way of operating. They then took these ideals abroad when the Empire expanded. So in a way, they did bring democracy to the masses.
As they did with industry!
When Britian abolished slavery the British taxpayer had to compensate companies for loss of profit !!
America carried on with slavery for quite a while after Britain. Can't remember the exact number, I'd have to nip into Wilberforce House to check....
Lets not mistake the fact the US was the biggest factor of the Slave Trade. There would not have been one without the US probably, and there certainly would have been no business opportunity for Britain if it wasnt for the US.
Thats not to say Britain didn't play a small part in the whole mess.
Let us both agree then;
They were both barstewards for their involvment
Bushmaster said:
I very much doubt the British Empire will be placed by history in the same league as the Greek and Roman empires. There are a few reasons for my opinion:
1. Longevity - the British Empire lasted for only a few decades, say from the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 to Indian independence in 1947. The Classical empires lasted for hundred of years.
2. Monuments - The Greeks and Romans left a legacy of huge monumental architecture in the places they conquered. We left a few railway lines.
3. Golden Ageism - The Classical empires were looked back on as a Golden Age, as the world reverted to the dark ages. There is little chance of anyone looking upon the BE as a Golden Age.
4. Great Ideas - The Classical Empires gave birth to new ideas about democracy, statehood, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, etc. The BE gave the world cheap cotton.
5. Safety - The Classical empires were completely demolished and left no real continuity and so the rest of the world could safely respect them as you can respect a dead enemy. The ghost of the BE will linger on as long as the UK remains independent and so the rest of the world is not in a position to respect the BE.
IMHO the British Empire will be seen as a time when the Industrial Revolution gave Britain a slight technological head-start over the rest of the world and they used this head-start to take advantage of less developed countries economically.
Sorry, but I completely disagree with everything you have just said.1. Longevity - the British Empire lasted for only a few decades, say from the end of the Napoleonic Wars in 1815 to Indian independence in 1947. The Classical empires lasted for hundred of years.
2. Monuments - The Greeks and Romans left a legacy of huge monumental architecture in the places they conquered. We left a few railway lines.
3. Golden Ageism - The Classical empires were looked back on as a Golden Age, as the world reverted to the dark ages. There is little chance of anyone looking upon the BE as a Golden Age.
4. Great Ideas - The Classical Empires gave birth to new ideas about democracy, statehood, mathematics, philosophy, sciences, etc. The BE gave the world cheap cotton.
5. Safety - The Classical empires were completely demolished and left no real continuity and so the rest of the world could safely respect them as you can respect a dead enemy. The ghost of the BE will linger on as long as the UK remains independent and so the rest of the world is not in a position to respect the BE.
IMHO the British Empire will be seen as a time when the Industrial Revolution gave Britain a slight technological head-start over the rest of the world and they used this head-start to take advantage of less developed countries economically.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff