Preparing hard workers for a future of tax paying...

[Twincam16]

rich1231 said:

I have a vested interest in life being unfair, get over it.

EFA

[rich1231]

Twincam16 said:

rich1231 said:

I have a vested interest in life being unfair, get over it.

EFA

Grow up you pointless turd.

Achievements should be tempered by merit, not by some sense of entitlement of fairness. Amazing that all the incredibly hard working people I know are successful isnt it. And those that moan and whine waiting for success to drop onto their laps are not.

You cocktard.

[SystemParanoia]

fbrs said:

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

close down the city, reopen the mines and bring back british leyland. that'll fix it.

maybe if unions are made illegal at the same time

[SystemParanoia]

Gold said:

cymtriks said:

Simple solution:

If you're of working age and not employed then you must attend a jobseekers office 9-5 five days a week to get benefits. Don't turn up, don't get paid.

There will be an on site team of secretaries to help with CVs and a creche. You'll be able to practice mock interviews. Reps from local businesses will come to talk about the jobs they offer. The forces will come along as well. It will be illegal not to advertise jobs on their database for any company employing more than five people.

State projects like ditch and footpath clearing will be on offer.

Sit and stare out of the window if you want but you'll do that until you are 65. No one will care if you apply for no jobs, you'll just sit there.

Anyone who wanted to work would probably value all the help on offer, note that this isn't intended to be a punishment unless you make it one.

It would have to be a fking big load of offices.

To fit 1.5 million

Edited by Gold on Tuesday 3rd August 19:27

Warehouses... lots of empty ones about... and loads more with build to design options too.

there's plenty of space, just run free buses from the current jobcentres to these warehouses if they're out of the way.

be late and miss the bus.. tough!


these warehouses can have on site fag, and booze shops, with a small police presence too... help us all reclaim our tax back at source!

[Willie Dee]

rich1231 said:

Grow up you pointless turd.

Achievements should be tempered by merit, not by some sense of entitlement of fairness. Amazing that all the incredibly hard working people I know are successful isnt it. And those that moan and whine waiting for success to drop onto their laps are not.

You cocktard.

Your delusional if you think wealth comes from merit or hard work in this, or many other countries.

[SystemParanoia]

Meh

Edited by SystemParanoia on Wednesday 4th August 18:26

[anonymous-user]

heebeegeetee said:

fbrs said:

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

close down the city, reopen the mines and bring back british leyland. that'll fix it.

No, we just needed good management, but tbh i don't think it exists here. We can do alright under foreign management though, luckily.

no interest in unsubstantiated opinion. regarding your previous comment;

1979-1996 industrial production +26% manufacturing production +15%
1997-2010 industrial production -12% manufacturing production -5%

[heebeegeetee]

fbrs said:

heebeegeetee said:

fbrs said:

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

close down the city, reopen the mines and bring back british leyland. that'll fix it.

No, we just needed good management, but tbh i don't think it exists here. We can do alright under foreign management though, luckily.

no interest in unsubstantiated opinion. regarding your previous comment;

1979-1996 industrial production +26% manufacturing production +15%
1997-2010 industrial production -12% manufacturing production -5%

What's that telling us? That BL made good cars?

Re the mines: they will open one day, and some people will make a lot of money out of the fact that they will be re-opened. All that energy ain't gonna stay in the ground forever.

SystemParanoia said:

fbrs said:

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

close down the city, reopen the mines and bring back british leyland. that'll fix it.

maybe if unions are made illegal at the same time

Why? All of our peer nations have done very well by working with their unions. Maybe if we'd had better and stronger unions our country might not have been sold down the river.

[otolith]

Willie Dee said:

Your delusional if you think wealth comes from merit or hard work in this, or many other countries.

There are plenty of wealthy people who were born into poor backgrounds and succeeded by merit and hard work. I expect it suits some people to think that they couldn't have done better if they had applied themselves, though.

[anonymous-user]

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

fbrs said:

1979-1996 industrial production +26% manufacturing production +15%
1997-2010 industrial production -12% manufacturing production -5%

heebeegeetee said:

What's that telling us?

that your drivel is not supported by facts

Edited by fbrs on Wednesday 4th August 18:48

[Twincam16]

Willie Dee said:

rich1231 said:

Grow up you pointless turd.

Achievements should be tempered by merit, not by some sense of entitlement of fairness. Amazing that all the incredibly hard working people I know are successful isnt it. And those that moan and whine waiting for success to drop onto their laps are not.

You cocktard.

Your delusional if you think wealth comes from merit or hard work in this, or many other countries.

Also, I wasn't talking about an equality of outcome, necessarily, but rather an equality of opportunity, and right now I do see a country in which opportunity is very heavily skewed in favour of the already-wealthy.

It's also delusional to think that people - hard-working people too, not layabouts - will put up with living much longer in a country where the average wage doesn't buy the average house because a wealthy minority have a vested interest in keeping property prices high and the number of affordable new homes low.

The poll tax riots will be an afternoon in the park compared to the almighty ststorm on it's way over housing in this country with the population set to increase the way it is.

[cymtriks]

Gold said:

cymtriks said:

Simple solution:

If you're of working age and not employed then you must attend a jobseekers office 9-5 five days a week to get benefits. Don't turn up, don't get paid.

There will be an on site team of secretaries to help with CVs and a creche. You'll be able to practice mock interviews. Reps from local businesses will come to talk about the jobs they offer. The forces will come along as well. It will be illegal not to advertise jobs on their database for any company employing more than five people.

State projects like ditch and footpath clearing will be on offer.

Sit and stare out of the window if you want but you'll do that until you are 65. No one will care if you apply for no jobs, you'll just sit there.

Anyone who wanted to work would probably value all the help on offer, note that this isn't intended to be a punishment unless you make it one.

It would have to be a fking big load of offices.

To fit 1.5 million

1.5 million out of a population of 60 million. On a pro rata basis that means that my home town, population 123000, would need space for 3000.

A quick search for offices to let shows gives easily enough for 3000 jobseekers. Even doubling that if you assume all the little villages around send their jobseekers to the nearest big town gives 6000.

A quick search for office space in my home town came up with space for over a thousand people in the first hit.

Remember that we could start with an alternating three day week Mon-Wed and Thurs-Sat and only deal with the longer term benefit claimants. More still could be accomodated if you start putting them on early and late shifts.

Fraud would stop very quickly and a lot of people would make use of the services offered. Immediately there would be a requirement for more office cleaners and secretaries.


It's completely doable. And once you start a lot will find work so the demand will immediately fall.

[Willie Dee]

otolith said:

Willie Dee said:

Your delusional if you think wealth comes from merit or hard work in this, or many other countries.

There are plenty of wealthy people who were born into poor backgrounds and succeeded by merit and hard work. I expect it suits some people to think that they couldn't have done better if they had applied themselves, though.

Whilst I agree there are plenty of wealthy people who worked hard to get where they are, there are many times that number of people who worked just as hard, if not harder, and did no succeed. Then you have the people who worked just as hard but remain relatively poor in my eyes, such as social workers and nurses.

I think its more that it suits wealthy people to think that the only reason they are wealthy is because of their own hard work which other people simply chose not to do, resolving them of any guilt and justifying their wealth to themselves.

[SystemParanoia]

cymtriks said:

Gold said:

cymtriks said:

Simple solution:

If you're of working age and not employed then you must attend a jobseekers office 9-5 five days a week to get benefits. Don't turn up, don't get paid.

There will be an on site team of secretaries to help with CVs and a creche. You'll be able to practice mock interviews. Reps from local businesses will come to talk about the jobs they offer. The forces will come along as well. It will be illegal not to advertise jobs on their database for any company employing more than five people.

State projects like ditch and footpath clearing will be on offer.

Sit and stare out of the window if you want but you'll do that until you are 65. No one will care if you apply for no jobs, you'll just sit there.

Anyone who wanted to work would probably value all the help on offer, note that this isn't intended to be a punishment unless you make it one.

It would have to be a fking big load of offices.

To fit 1.5 million

1.5 million out of a population of 60 million. On a pro rata basis that means that my home town, population 123000, would need space for 3000.

A quick search for offices to let shows gives easily enough for 3000 jobseekers. Even doubling that if you assume all the little villages around send their jobseekers to the nearest big town gives 6000.

A quick search for office space in my home town came up with space for over a thousand people in the first hit.

Remember that we could start with an alternating three day week Mon-Wed and Thurs-Sat and only deal with the longer term benefit claimants. More still could be accomodated if you start putting them on early and late shifts.

Fraud would stop very quickly and a lot of people would make use of the services offered. Immediately there would be a requirement for more office cleaners and secretaries.


It's completely doable. And once you start a lot will find work so the demand will immediately fall.

how can this idea be put forward to the powers that be!?

[Poledriver]

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

So how did the government close down privately owned businesses?
Most of the businesses (public and private)were closed down by the lazy fecking 'work' force who went on strike to get more money for sitting around on their arses doing nothing! Shot themselves in the foot when productivity remained the same while they were on strike!

[SystemParanoia]

The benefit of Cymtriks idea, is that it makes the benefit fraud surveillance teams work that much easier!

as the only people wondering about/driving about will be those registered disability / independently wealthy / old/ students / or obviously working.

this must happen!

[Twincam16]

Willie Dee said:

otolith said:

Willie Dee said:

Your delusional if you think wealth comes from merit or hard work in this, or many other countries.

There are plenty of wealthy people who were born into poor backgrounds and succeeded by merit and hard work. I expect it suits some people to think that they couldn't have done better if they had applied themselves, though.

Whilst I agree there are plenty of wealthy people who worked hard to get where they are, there are many times that number of people who worked just as hard, if not harder, and did no succeed. Then you have the people who worked just as hard but remain relatively poor in my eyes, such as social workers and nurses.

I think its more that it suits wealthy people to think that the only reason they are wealthy is because of their own hard work which other people simply chose not to do, resolving them of any guilt and justifying their wealth to themselves.

And seeing the near-poverty some people like your aforementioned social workers and nurses live in as somehow 'their fault' for choosing that line of work.

It's becoming far too expensive to get by on the average wage in this country. That is not only 'unfair', but also 'unsustainable', simply because the worse-off people get, the angrier they get, and the fewer essentials they can pay for, the more the taxpayer ends up making up for.

Same goes for those who've chosen a life on benefits. Some do it because they're just bone idle, but as Iain Duncan Smith has noted (and will hopefully do something about but the taxation system, the minimum wage, the issue of mass working-class long-term employment opportunities and the housing situation needs sorting in tandem to the universal credit), for many people, work just doesn't pay right now.

And the longer that situation is allowed to continue, the more we'll have to pay in taxation, the harder the rich will be hit, the more they'll complain about 'spongers' and the less they'll actually do about solving any of the problems they're complaining about.

It seems that politics in this country is like the needle of a metronome, bouncing wildly between left and right in terms of solutions to these ongoing problems. Germany has a far more consensual system that managed to find a happy compromise decades ago and get big business and the unions talking to each other and working profitably for everyone's gain - not either the boss or the unions.

And the rich of this country buy BMW, Bosch, Linn and Leica, and wonder why the British can't compete

[anonymous-user]

Twincam16 said:

It's also delusional to think that people - hard-working people too, not layabouts - will put up with living much longer in a country where the average wage doesn't buy the average house because a wealthy minority have a vested interest in keeping property prices high and the number of affordable new homes low.

The poll tax riots will be an afternoon in the park compared to the almighty ststorm on it's way over housing in this country with the population set to increase the way it is.

i think you are being overly dramatic.
54% of households are completely unmortgaged
44% are mortgaged on average 108k or about 4x average salary

[Twincam16]

Poledriver said:

heebeegeetee said:

the tories started closing all the factories and mines down, and moved the nations wealth earning capacity to the square mile

So how did the government close down privately owned businesses?
Most of the businesses (public and private)were closed down by the lazy fecking 'work' force who went on strike to get more money for sitting around on their arses doing nothing! Shot themselves in the foot when productivity remained the same while they were on strike!

Or maybe they went on strike because the management had pocketed most of the profits during the boom years, left nothing to invest in competitive products during the lean years, and expected a diminished workforce to build things they knew were crap and losing out to the Germans and the Japanese on a lower relative wage than they were before.

That's the reason why so many of our businesses are foreign-owned these days. In Britain we had a short-term, get-rich-quick, cut-and-run ethos at the top. Compare that to Germany where the engineers get titles, and Japan where the boss has to start out on the shop floor. Only in this country did we think Lord Twistleton-St.John-Smythe was the best person to put at the top.

[Twincam16]

fbrs said:

Twincam16 said:

It's also delusional to think that people - hard-working people too, not layabouts - will put up with living much longer in a country where the average wage doesn't buy the average house because a wealthy minority have a vested interest in keeping property prices high and the number of affordable new homes low.

The poll tax riots will be an afternoon in the park compared to the almighty ststorm on it's way over housing in this country with the population set to increase the way it is.

i think you are being overly dramatic.
54% of households are completely unmortgaged
44% are mortgaged on average 108k or about 4x average salary

Yes, currently, but what about the generation of twentysomethings stuck with their parents who'll have to buy houses from people who've been using them like bank accounts, who'll have to inflate the price to avoid negative equity?

Edited by Twincam16 on Wednesday 4th August 19:33