Guess who's not going to the wedding...?

[Zaxxon]

Just remembered one thing countdown, how does your argument stand regarding Edward?
As the t-shirt read: you can turn a frog into a prince..... But you can't turn a prince into a Royal Marine.

[ClintonB]

Zaxxon said:

Just remembered one thing countdown, how does your argument stand regarding Edward?
As the t-shirt read: you can turn a frog into a prince..... But you can't turn a prince into a Royal Marine.

Or even how does it stand post acceptance of Satan & his chief witch not exactly coming from dirt butty eating country either.
I guess we ought to leave mini Buffet out of this - poor chap needed a decade to complete what was no doubt an unbelievably insightful PhD. We trusted this man with the family silver!

[NoNeed]

Countdown said:

grumbledoak said:

Countdown said:

I'd argue the bankers were as much, if not more to blame for the current economic situation than Blair or Brown. If it was just those two then the US and most of Western europe wouldn't be in a similar pickle

What a bunch of absolute rubbish. I'd have happily watched a few banks go under. We didn't need to save them; that was a lie. But the debt that Gordon arranged for us is one hundred times bigger.

So why is the US economy in the same situation? Why have Greece, Ireland, and Portugal needed financial support?

In PH speak.
He was driving the car when it crashed, he wasn't paying attention to the signs, but put his foot down anyway.


In the real world.
Labour had managed BEFORE the banking crisis to wrack up £494 Billion of debt. This was in the good times, this was despit doubling taxation, this was despite robbing the pension funds and this was despite selling off the gold.

Had labour used the extra money they had to pay off our debt, the banking crisis would not have been a crisis, it would have been a small banking problem. That problem to date has cost £112 Billion which is a small amount of our total debt over £1 TRILLION.

Just in case you are not aware, The deficit this country was running at BEFORE the banking crisis was £30 Billion a year. Even when the country was doing well Labour couldn't manage the finance.

Edited by NoNeed on Monday 25th April 01:57

[ralphrj]

NoNeed said:

In PH speak.
He was driving the car when it crashed, he wasn't paying attention to the signs, but put his foot down anyway.


In the real world.
Labour had managed BEFORE the banking crisis to wrack up £494 Billion of debt. This was in the good times, this was despit doubling taxation, this was despite robbing the pension funds and this was despite selling off the gold.

Had labour used the extra money they had to pay off our debt, the banking crisis would not have been a crisis, it would have been a small banking problem. That problem to date has cost £112 Billion which is a small amount of our total debt over £1 TRILLION.

Just in case you are not aware, The deficit this country was running at BEFORE the banking crisis was £30 Billion a year. Even when the country was doing well Labour couldn't manage the finance.

Edited by NoNeed on Monday 25th April 01:57

+1 x the national debt

It is so frustrating the people can't see the reality that spending was out of control for years before the financial crisis. In fact all the cuts that are being made now would still have had to be made even if there hadn't been a financial crisis. Or to put it another way if we hadn't been overspending before the financial crisis we wouldn't now have to make the cuts.

The EU get plenty of stick on PH but they could see the catastrophe on the horizon. Gordon Brown was repeatedly given official rebukes from the EU for running a budget deficit of more than 3% of GDP but he simply ignored them:

26th April 2001 (almost exactly 10 years to the day) Brown angry at Brussels rebuke http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brow...

25th April 2002 Brown dismisses rebuke by Brussels http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brow...

17th February 2005 Europe rebuke Chancellor Gordon Brown over budget deficit http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/eu...

6th January 2006 Brown faces EU borrowing rebuke http://www.epolitix.com/latestnews/article-detail/...

These are the first ones I found. Almost certainly there will be the same rebukes for 2003, 2004, 2007, 2008 & 2009.

[Countdown]

NoNeed said:

In PH speak.
He was driving the car when it crashed, he wasn't paying attention to the signs, but put his foot down anyway.


In the real world.
Labour had managed BEFORE the banking crisis to wrack up £494 Billion of debt. This was in the good times, this was despit doubling taxation, this was despite robbing the pension funds and this was despite selling off the gold.

Had labour used the extra money they had to pay off our debt, the banking crisis would not have been a crisis, it would have been a small banking problem. That problem to date has cost £112 Billion which is a small amount of our total debt over £1 TRILLION.

Just in case you are not aware, The deficit this country was running at BEFORE the banking crisis was £30 Billion a year. Even when the country was doing well Labour couldn't manage the finance.

Edited by NoNeed on Monday 25th April 01:57

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

Looking at the figures in the chart

• Debt in 1997 was 41.9% of GDP
• Debt didn't go back above this level until 2009
• Our current debt, as a proportion of GDP, is lower than France, Germany, and the US.

I realise its not "the done thing" to suggest that B&B aren't evil incarnate or entirely to blame for the current economic situation and that others such as the Bankers were just innocent bystanders. However, if we take that point of view, its strange that so many other nations are in as bad a position as us, if not worse.

With regards to the EU, perhaps they should have concentrated their focus on the PIGS.

[Countdown]

Zaxxon said:

Just remembered one thing countdown, how does your argument stand regarding Edward?
As the t-shirt read: you can turn a frog into a prince..... But you can't turn a prince into a Royal Marine.

I actually have more respect for him for selecting one of the most demanding branches of the military to join. He gave it his best shot, he didn't make it.

With regards to the other Royals I see it in the same way as somebody being given a place at Oxbridge because of who they know and somebody who gets a place on their own merits. The person who does it on his own has achieved more in my estimation.

[JagLover]

Countdown said:

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt...

Looking at the figures in the chart

• Debt in 1997 was 41.9% of GDP
• Debt didn't go back above this level until 2009
• Our current debt, as a proportion of GDP, is lower than France, Germany, and the US.

The issue was not debt as such, but the structural deficit. After 13 or so years of unbroken growth Labour was planning to run a deficit of over 4% of GDP in 2009/10, but the tax side of the finances to keep it at even that level was heavily dependent on the bubble, from banking, housing etc.

Take away these 'bubble' tax receipts and suddenly you are looking at a serious deficit problem, regardless of the costs of bailing out the banks (most of which will be recovered in any case through charges on loans, gurantees and sales of the shares we now hold).

[Muntu]

Countdown said:

Another way of looking at it is to see what the Blairs / Obamas have achieved on their own merit and then look at their Royal Highnesses

If Barry Boy runs on "his accomplishments" in 2012 it may be a very short election campaign for him, and a rather embarassing set of presidential debates. I suggest that he sticks with the smoke and mirrors that he is actually good at.

[Tuscan Rat]

This has gone so far off topic, its time to bring this topic to a close.