Penalised for being abused by Travelers

[AlVal]

Uncle Fester said:

It seems that the Police have found the only effective solution already.

It was in the shotgun cabinet all along.

damn right, buckshot across their exposed balls would have put a quick end to it.

or 8:3 aluminium:iron oxide on the hood with the appropriate encouragement on the hood above the engine block of whatever jeep/hiace they're running at their site

[Graham]

blindswelledrat said:

PH jumps into hysteria about why we aren't allowed to shoot travellers who cut wood and get mouthy.

we're Not oh bugger, I'd better go and dig a hole for the bodies...

[Mikeyboy]

Oakey said:

Google Sam Vinden. You may have to use Google cache due to articles being deleted. But in a nutshell; arrested for kidnap and torture, case dropped with no explanation. Molested a 14yr old girl, no charges brought, 'not in the public interest'. Arrested for attempted murder (Feb 2011), released on bail. Arrested for double murder (March 2011), released on bail (along with his accomplice, who would then be arrested yet again and released on bail, yet again, for setting fire to someones house).

Seriously, WHAT THE fk. You arrest someone in Feb of this year for attempted murder, release them on bail, then two weeks later arrest them again for murder and... release them on bail.

Once again it's Essex police.

Actually as I understand our legal system its not Essex Polices fault at all. The DPP maybe or the courts but certainly not the Police. They did their job, they arrested them.

[Night Runner]

In my job, if whatever tools I use don't work I fix them.

Your computer breaks - call IT.
Staff aren't doing their job - get involved etc.

Surely, if the law isn't working to allow the police to do their job they should look to sort it? All I hear is 'it's the law, not the police'.

Fight to fix the tools you use.

Don't hide behind excuses.


eta: I fking hate good salt of the earth travelling folk.

[neilr]

The salt of the earth do what you likey scum have caused me and my family various problems over the years, from burglary to car theft. ANYONE who says that not all of them are involved in criminal activity in some way, simply hasn't had to deal with them, either in any way or for long enough to realise they are all light fingered scum that need to be dealth with.

As far as the Police having their hands ties when they invade someones land, I'll go and tow my parents caravan onto a random persons property then refuse to move it, we'll soon see how tied the constabularies hands are then won't we.

Family members in surrey constantly have to put up with this vermin casing the houses in the village several times a week, fortunately they and the neighbours all look out for eachother, but several times a week it still happens. Their neighbour suprised two honest travelling folk in his drivway taking an interest in his garage door last week. It's ok though, when he challenged them they told him they were just looking for the pub round the corner. Police speed checking in the village (which fo be fair people do drive like s though) couldn't have given less of a toss, despite being given a registration, full description of them and their vehicle and the fact they had circled round back into the village somewhere. Hands tied y;see. Idiot halfwits.

[Globs]

rhinochopig said:

I'm with BSR on this. My father used to work at a "skill-centre" (some government backed scheme for getting people back into work though trade training) teaching precision tool making before he retired. One of his clients had been in prison following a incident where him and his brother had confronted some travellers on neighbouring land about stealing livestock. It happened several times and in the end, the other brother decided to act and took his shotgun with him resulting in one dead traveller and a murder charge.

Sensible precaution IMO.

Madness more like. Prison for protecting what is his? FFS.
He should have got a medal.

[Halb]

Pothole said:

I'd wager we have not heard the full story here.

What else could you suppose there is to hear, which might add depth?

[Pothole]

Halb said:

Pothole said:

I'd wager we have not heard the full story here.

What else could you suppose there is to hear, which might add depth?

see the post above yours.

[sharpfocus]

Night Runner said:

In my job, if whatever tools I use don't work I fix them.

Your computer breaks - call IT.
Staff aren't doing their job - get involved etc.

Surely, if the law isn't working to allow the police to do their job they should look to sort it? All I hear is 'it's the law, not the police'.

Fight to fix the tools you use.

Don't hide behind excuses.

More than their job's worth.

Public sector, innit.

[eccles]

blindswelledrat said:

In the real world the actual truth is that an uncomfortably large proportion of travellers are disrespectful of the law but there are still huge numbers of law abiding ones.
There is simply no one answer to how to treat all travellers.

Whilst I totally agree with your view that the police have probably acted on information not published, I can't help but think it must be easy to have such a 'balanced' view of travelling 'folk' when you live in London and the chances of them setting up camp near you are virtually nil.

[Paul Dishman]

Pothole said:

Shall we wait until (if ever) we have access to more of the FACTS about this story before jumping into the usual rants?

This smacks to me of the 'poor old pensioner arrested for carrying a penknife' story we discussed a while back.

If thats the bloke from Newton Abbot, he was given 20 years porridge for child sex abuse a couple of months ago

[Globs]

eccles said:

blindswelledrat said:

In the real world the actual truth is that an uncomfortably large proportion of travellers are disrespectful of the law but there are still huge numbers of law abiding ones.
There is simply no one answer to how to treat all travellers.

Whilst I totally agree with your view that the police have probably acted on information not published, I can't help but think it must be easy to have such a 'balanced' view of travelling 'folk' when you live in London and the chances of them setting up camp near you are virtually nil.

That's the beauty of hypocrisy, if a gypsy turned up near them they'd be first out the door with pitchforks.
I sure Common Law allows for self defence, even if statute and crooked courts appear to have outlawed it.

Death after several attempts of livestock theft seems pretty balanced to me TBH, saves the police a job they never seem keen on too.

[Mr_annie_vxr]

sharpfocus said:

More than their job's worth.

Public sector, innit.

Or the fact that the police are separate from the judiciary. From the law makers.

Amazing how you want the laws broken by the police when it suits but strictly obeyed when it applies to you?

The police CANNOT decide to charge for serious offences where the arrested person denies the offence without consent of the CPS. The police have no control of the CPS. Police officer are NOT allowed to stand for political office.

Still clearly your fully aware of the law, the rules of evidence, PACE and our 'constitution'....

[Globs]

Mr_annie_vxr said:

Amazing how you want the laws broken by the police when it suits but strictly obeyed when it applies to you?

Less amazing when you consider the HUGE gulf between the law and justice in this country. People want justice, the police can only apply statute (maritime/commercial) law, which is often incompatible as in this case.

[sharpfocus]

As I read it, the point wasn't suggesting police should break the rules, only that if the rules are inadequate they should attempt to change the rules or at least raise awareness of the issues instead of simply hiding behind them.

[Halb]

Ahh I see, yeh I suppose the brother most likely threatened them too loudly.
Still, the s should not be on the land to begin with.

AJS- said:

I would say the brother pretty obviously threatened to shoot them, and the Telegraph declined to report this.

Not that this warrants confiscating a shotgun IMO, but unfortunately English law doesn't recognise the right to defend your property or even yourself with a tool designed for keeping down vermin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_doctrine

[Flintstone]

Jasandjules said:

tinman0 said:

I have never understood why farmers just don't get a muck spreader. Spray that near the s and they'll soon move on.

Edited by Bill on Wednesday 27th April 13:29

One round my way did. He didn't spray it near them though, he drove through the middle of the lot during the night. They were gone by the next morning. Ever since then he has put huge bales of straw/whatever across the gates.

As others have said, if those chaps return and get shot, well the farmers "don't have" any firearms so it can't have been them.

I'm thinking of going into business offering a salt (of the earth) dispersal service. All I need is an anonymised aircraft fitted with crop spraying equipment and a few hundred gallons of fish oil.


Think I'll call it 'st-A-Way'.

[rich1231]

Re Essex again, the industrial estates near Basildon that have the lovely no fixed abode people dashing about, are like a war zone. Various private security firms battling with them nightly. Police never visible and not interested it seems.

[ATG]

sharpfocus said:

Night Runner said:

In my job, if whatever tools I use don't work I fix them.

Your computer breaks - call IT.
Staff aren't doing their job - get involved etc.

Surely, if the law isn't working to allow the police to do their job they should look to sort it? All I hear is 'it's the law, not the police'.

Fight to fix the tools you use.

Don't hide behind excuses.

More than their job's worth.

Public sector, innit.

Our constitution is specifically designed to separate law making (Parliament), law enforecement (Plod) and judgement (the courts). At the very minimum if you combine responsibilities for any of those, you start creating conflicts of interest (e.g. broadening legal powers in order to make enforcement easier, decriminalising things that are hard to police, etc). And at worst you've given one group the tools to start oppressing the rest of the population. The Police are not and should not be responsible for the law. That is Parliament's responsibility.

[Globs]

rich1231 said:

Re Essex again, the industrial estates near Basildon that have the lovely no fixed abode people dashing about, are like a war zone. Various private security firms battling with them nightly. Police never visible and not interested it seems.

I bet if you tell the police they are anarchists you'd get some response..