Shootings at Batman Movie Premiere

[tinman0]

vonuber said:

tinman0 said:

Like the woman the other week who had a row with her husband, she went to the garage, collected the gun, wandered back to the argument and put a round through the ceiling. Oops, domestic violence (for the felony), using a weapon (putting a round in the ceiling), and she's now serving 20 years. No sympathy as she was offered a 2 year plea deal and would probably have served less than a year.

20 years in prison for firing a bullet into the ceiling? WTF? Either you are not reporting everything, or the place is seriously fked up.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots/

Here you go. Florida takes weapons seriously. It's not like the UK where she would have been let off with a caution, Florida takes no st when it comes to this stuff. She was offered a plea bargain, didn't take it. More fool her.

[tinman0]

youngsyr said:

Still, who are we to judge, I saw a burglar on one of those Police, Camera, Death! programmes caught red handed and coughed to something like 40 more burglaries and if the narrator is to be believed, avoided a prison sentence.

Wasn't Alabama! I heard about a case where a driver got his 44th DUI. Judge was on first name basis long before that. He got reported for Habitual Offenders Law, and it was handed to a higher court to see if he was awarded the full 25 years! Never did find out what he got, but he was jailed for sometime.

[NWTony]

tinman0 said:

Have a look in the Bureau of Justice Statistics and you'll find all the reports.

I found the reports and went through the data tables for 2010 (the last complete report), I couldn't see where the figures quoted were stated so I wondered how he got to them. Hence the request for a direct link.

[unrepentant]

NWTony said:

tinman0 said:

Have a look in the Bureau of Justice Statistics and you'll find all the reports.

I found the reports and went through the data tables for 2010 (the last complete report), I couldn't see where the figures quoted were stated so I wondered how he got to them. Hence the request for a direct link.

The link I gave you shows all the crime stats, black on black murder is not something that is calculated from what I could see. If, as tinman suggests, most black killings are black on black then, as whites account for half the victims and half the killers, there must be a huge number of white on white killings!

[youngsyr]

tinman0 said:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57433184/fla-m...

Here you go. Florida takes weapons seriously. It's not like the UK where she would have been let off with a caution, Florida takes no st when it comes to this stuff. She was offered a plea bargain, didn't take it. More fool her.

Pretty sure it was Florida where I saw many posters in public places laying out exactly what the minimum sentences were for (a) brandishing a gun during a felony, (b) discharging it and (c) hitting someone with the shot. So no excuses at all.

[croyde]

You'd think that a three and out system would produce a largely crime free populace.

[FurtiveFreddy]

croyde said:

You'd think that a three and out system would produce a largely crime free populace.

Don't most criminals believe they won't get caught though?

[Jimbeaux]

mattnunn said:

unrepentant said:

tinman0 said:

The other problem with the stats is that they don't break down the racial groups. It's been said before and it'll be said again, Black America is in the middle of a gun fight. If you're not black, the chances of you getting shot or being involved in violence involving a gun goes down by a factor of 20-30, if not more.

Or we could stop listening to your twaddle and actually look at the stats.........

71.8% of murders involve firearms. 48.7% of all murder victims are white, 48.6% are black and 2.7% are "other races".

24.2% of murders are commited by family members. 53.8% of victims are killed by someone they know. 34.6% of all female victims were murdered by their husband or boyfriend.

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reporting.

If that's true Tinman0 is either very misinformed, trying to misinform or a disgraceful racist.

If it's not true I apologise.

Why would he be a racist? The fact is that Black on black crime accounts for most murders here. If black and white murder % is around 48%, and the black population total is about 13%, you do the math. You call it racism, I call it a fact.

[mattnunn]

Jimbeaux said:

mattnunn said:

unrepentant said:

tinman0 said:

The other problem with the stats is that they don't break down the racial groups. It's been said before and it'll be said again, Black America is in the middle of a gun fight. If you're not black, the chances of you getting shot or being involved in violence involving a gun goes down by a factor of 20-30, if not more.

Or we could stop listening to your twaddle and actually look at the stats.........

71.8% of murders involve firearms. 48.7% of all murder victims are white, 48.6% are black and 2.7% are "other races".

24.2% of murders are commited by family members. 53.8% of victims are killed by someone they know. 34.6% of all female victims were murdered by their husband or boyfriend.

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reporting.

If that's true Tinman0 is either very misinformed, trying to misinform or a disgraceful racist.

If it's not true I apologise.

Why would he be a racist? The fact is that Black on black crime accounts for most murders here. If black and white murder % is around 48%, and the black population total is about 13%, you do the math. You call it racism, I call it a fact.

Maths, but I see what you did there, I'll do the same should I?

I don't know why he'd be a racist, perhaps his familly were racists, perhaps his wife ran off with a black man, perhaps he's got a really small pecker, etc...

Oh please do let's go on deliberatly misunderstanding each other - oh no let's not, one of us has a gun.

[skinley]

mattnunn said:

Maths, but I see what you did there, I'll do the same should I?

I don't know why he'd be a racist, perhaps his familly were racists, perhaps his wife ran off with a black man, perhaps he's got a really small pecker, etc...

Oh please do let's go on deliberatly misunderstanding each other - oh no let's not, one of us has a gun.

[pokethepope]

Jimbeaux, tinman et al:

Is your main reason for supporting your right to own/carry a gun because in America if you were to come into contact/conflict with a criminal it is quite likely they will have one?

If so, would you prefer to live in an America where you could feel safe without needing to carry a gun?

If you moved to the UK tomorrow would you feel very unsafe, or would the fact that any criminal you could come into contact/conflict with is very unlikely to have a gun make you feel (relatively) safe and on a level playing field, just as gun vs gun would back home?

[Jimbeaux]

mattnunn said:

Jimbeaux said:

mattnunn said:

unrepentant said:

tinman0 said:

The other problem with the stats is that they don't break down the racial groups. It's been said before and it'll be said again, Black America is in the middle of a gun fight. If you're not black, the chances of you getting shot or being involved in violence involving a gun goes down by a factor of 20-30, if not more.

Or we could stop listening to your twaddle and actually look at the stats.........

71.8% of murders involve firearms. 48.7% of all murder victims are white, 48.6% are black and 2.7% are "other races".

24.2% of murders are commited by family members. 53.8% of victims are killed by someone they know. 34.6% of all female victims were murdered by their husband or boyfriend.

Source: FBI Uniform Crime Reporting.

If that's true Tinman0 is either very misinformed, trying to misinform or a disgraceful racist.

If it's not true I apologise.

Why would he be a racist? The fact is that Black on black crime accounts for most murders here. If black and white murder % is around 48%, and the black population total is about 13%, you do the math. You call it racism, I call it a fact.

Maths, but I see what you did there, I'll do the same should I?

I don't know why he'd be a racist, perhaps his familly were racists, perhaps his wife ran off with a black man, perhaps he's got a really small pecker, etc...

Oh please do let's go on deliberatly misunderstanding each other - oh no let's not, one of us has a gun.

Attempt clever redirection all you like, the fact is you made him out a racist saying that the murder rate was the same and it clearly is not, as shown by the maths. ETA: I don't think you would warrant a gun.

[Jimbeaux]

pokethepope said:

Jimbeaux, tinman et al:

Is your main reason for supporting your right to own/carry a gun because in America if you were to come into contact/conflict with a criminal it is quite likely they will have one?

If so, would you prefer to live in an America where you could feel safe without needing to carry a gun?

If you moved to the UK tomorrow would you feel very unsafe, or would the fact that any criminal you could come into contact/conflict with is very unlikely to have a gun make you feel (relatively) safe and on a level playing field, just as gun vs gun would back home?

I do not carry a gun around myself, they stay in my home. Therefore, I feel no different when I visit the U.K. One reason for support is a principle, any right taken away starts a slipery slope; what's next, pedestrian protection on cars (oh wait!). Another is that there is no realistic way to rid the nation of guns even if everyone suddenly decided they wanted to do so.

[hairykrishna]

Jimbeaux said:

Why would he be a racist? The fact is that Black on black crime accounts for most murders here. If black and white murder % is around 48%, and the black population total is about 13%, you do the math. You call it racism, I call it a fact.

Well no, those figures mean that the black population is responsible for a disproportionate amount of the murders not that black on black crime accounts for most murders. You are quite right that stating facts is not racist though.

My speculation is that economic and social situation is much more of a factor than skin colour. In other words, if you're poor and stuck in a stty inner city ghetto then you're more likely to be involved in violence with a firearm. The racial divide in the figures is just a reflection of the fact that in the USA you're much more likely to be poor if you're black.

[Efbe]

Jimbeaux said:

I do not carry a gun around myself, they stay in my home. Therefore, I feel no different when I visit the U.K. One reason for support is a principle, any right taken away starts a slipery slope; what's next, pedestrian protection on cars (oh wait!). Another is that there is no realistic way to rid the nation of guns even if everyone suddenly decided they wanted to do so.

I think the main difference is that here in the UK the idea of owning a gun(generally speaking) is not something we see as neccesary or even that desireable.

I completely don't understand why the US view owning a gun as a right, for me owning an RPG or missile would be exactly the same; it is something solely designed to kill. If you have the right to own a gun, then why not an RPG, or S/A missile, or ICBM.
For me, owning any of these are much more of an infrigement on everyone else in society than an infringement on your own freedoms.

This is the reason we have a speedlimit. It's not to stop you having the freedom to go at any speed you want, it's to stop other people from being hurt/killed.
If you want to play with guns, then leave them at the firing range.

[Jimbeaux]

hairykrishna said:

Jimbeaux said:

Why would he be a racist? The fact is that Black on black crime accounts for most murders here. If black and white murder % is around 48%, and the black population total is about 13%, you do the math. You call it racism, I call it a fact.

Well no, those figures mean that the black population is responsible for a disproportionate amount of the murders not that black on black crime accounts for most murders. You are quite right that stating facts is not racist though.

My speculation is that economic and social situation is much more of a factor than skin colour. In other words, if you're poor and stuck in a stty inner city ghetto then you're more likely to be involved in violence with a firearm. The racial divide in the figures is just a reflection of the fact that in the USA you're much more likely to be poor if you're black.

Sorry to disappoint but most of that black crime is against other blacks. As to it's all due to poverty, etc. That is true to an extent of course. However, my father grew up in what is now a very high crime area. He was poorer than those there now and there was no form of welfare then whatsoever. Guns were everywhere then but virtually nobody was robbed, shot, etc. You tell me what is wrong. I say it is down to some sort of a family unit, character, and taught values about simple rights and wrongs. The areas we speak of now are 85% one parent families on the third generation of entitlement, encouraging single parent baby-making as a career.

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

Sorry to disappoint but most of that black crime is against other blacks.

Please quote the source for that Jim as I can't find it amongst the official stats.

[Jimbeaux]

unrepentant said:

Jimbeaux said:

Sorry to disappoint but most of that black crime is against other blacks.

Please quote the source for that Jim as I can't find it amongst the official stats.

Start with this article; stats to come:

http://voiceofdetroit.net/2011/04/19/black-crimes-...


The below is an excerpts from the DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics:

"Blacks are 13% of the population, but commit 51.2% of the murders, indicating that blacks commit a seriously disproportionate number of murders."


"Most nonfatal violence against blacks was intraracial;
victim/offender relationship varied by victim gender
About four-fifths of black victims of nonfatal violence perceived
the offenders to be black (table 5)."


http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/bvvc.pdf

Edited by Jimbeaux on Thursday 2nd August 17:18

[unrepentant]

Jimbeaux said:

unrepentant said:

Jimbeaux said:

Sorry to disappoint but most of that black crime is against other blacks.

Please quote the source for that Jim as I can't find it amongst the official stats.

Start with this article; stats to come:

http://voiceofdetroit.net/2011/04/19/black-crimes-...

That's just an opinion piece about a city with a disproportionally large African-American community (many of whom went there to escape the inhuman Jimbeaux sorry Jim Crow laws) and appalling poverty. Quote some facts!

[BruceV8]

I detect an element of hoplophobia, as defined by the urban dictionary, among some posters whenever the we have this debate:

Urban dictionary said:

hoplophobe

An irrational fear of weapons, generally guns, usually occuring as a result of a liberal upbringing or the fact that the person is just a wimp in general. Rather than deal with the fear said hoplophobe will assign human characteristics to a weapon ie "guns are evil" or "guns kill" to justify the fear rather than deal with the core problem of being a sissy.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=hop...