Meanwhile, In Syria

[Legend83]

J4CKO said:

Can anyone point me at a succinct explanation of what has happened in Syria to arrive where it is today, i.e. fked, big style ?

I just dont have the background knowledge and feel I should, a potted history kind of thing.

Funnily enough I read the Wiki of the Civil War over lunch today.

In brief:

- Assad's dad rules a majority Arab Sunni nation as a moderate Shia Alawite since the 70s.
- Passes a constitution that says the President of Syria does not necessarily have to be Muslim.
- Muslim Brotherhood not happy and call Jihad.
- Cue lots of fighting, including the death of c25,000 people in Hama in 1982 in a siege by Assad forces to destroy the Sunni uprisings.
- Assad dies in 2000 and the Presidency is taken over by Bashar with a promise of democratic reforms.
- Reforms don't happen, persecution and locking up politicial enemies does instead.
- Hard and fast introduction of free market economics benefits the few and leaves the many in poverty and hunger.
- Massive drought in late 2000s pushes many to the edge and along with the "Arab Spring" elsewhere, results in marches and protests.
- These get violent once the Free Syrian Army is formed.

The rest is history.

Edited by Legend83 on Friday 7th April 14:21

[Zod]

Legend83 said:

J4CKO said:

Can anyone point me at a succinct explanation of what has happened in Syria to arrive where it is today, i.e. fked, big style ?

I just dont have the background knowledge and feel I should, a potted history kind of thing.

Funnily enough I read the Wiki of the Civil War over lunch today.

In brief:

- Assad's dad rules a majority Arab Sunni nation as a moderate Shia Alawite since the 70s.
- Passes a constitution that says the President of Syria does not necessarily have to be Muslim.
- Muslim Brotherhood not happy and call Jihad.
- Cue lots of fighting.
- Assad dies in 2000 and the Presidency is taken over by Bashar with a promise of democratic reforms.
- Reforms don't happen, persecution and locking up politicial enemies does instead.
- Hard and fast introduction of free market economics benefits the few and leaves the many in poverty and hunger.
- Massive drought in late 2000s pushes many to the edge and along with the "Arab Spring" elsewhere, results in marches and protests.
- These get violent once the Free Syrian Army is formed.

The rest is history.

Erm, I think you would do well to read up on what happened in 1982 at Hama.

[Legend83]

Zod said:

Erm, I think you would do well to read up on what happened in 1982 at Hama.

Good point - the overview certainly skimmed over this!

Edited my very brief timeline.

[Transmitter Man]

[quote=Legend83]

Funnily enough I read the Wiki of the Civil War over lunch today.

In brief:

- Assad's dad rules a majority Arab Sunni nation as a moderate Shia Alawite since the 70s.


Legend,

Could you please point me to the reference where you read Assad's father as 'moderate'?

Later I'll also help you fill in some blanks you've conveniently left out.

Phil

Edited by Transmitter Man on Friday 7th April 14:31

[Legend83]

Transmitter Man]egend83 said:

Funnily enough I read the Wiki of the Civil War over lunch today.

In brief:

- Assad's dad rules a majority Arab Sunni nation as a moderate Shia Alawite since the 70s.


Legend,

Could you please point me to the reference where you read Assad's father as 'moderate'?

Phil

Hi Phil,

I might be wrong here but that was my interpretation in relation to his religious outlook, reasoning being he was not a hardcore Muslim e.g. adapting the constitution to allow the President to be non-Muslim; pushing for a more secular society.

From a killing people perspective he was clearly not 'moderate'!

As I say, my interpretation and likely wrong. I am but a youngster and didn't live through it or have ever studied it in great detail.

[J4CKO]

Legend83 said:

Zod said:

Erm, I think you would do well to read up on what happened in 1982 at Hama.

Good point - the overview certainly skimmed over this!

Edited my very brief timeline.

Cheers, I have some reading to do, I am badly out of touch on this.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Legend83 said:

J4CKO said:

Can anyone point me at a succinct explanation of what has happened in Syria to arrive where it is today, i.e. fked, big style ?

I just dont have the background knowledge and feel I should, a potted history kind of thing.

Funnily enough I read the Wiki of the Civil War over lunch today.

In brief:

- Assad's dad rules a majority Arab Sunni nation as a moderate Shia Alawite since the 70s.
- Passes a constitution that says the President of Syria does not necessarily have to be Muslim.
- Muslim Brotherhood not happy and call Jihad.
- Cue lots of fighting, including the death of c25,000 people in Hama in 1982 in a siege by Assad forces to destroy the Sunni uprisings.
- Assad dies in 2000 and the Presidency is taken over by Bashar with a promise of democratic reforms.
- Reforms don't happen, persecution and locking up politicial enemies does instead.
- Hard and fast introduction of free market economics benefits the few and leaves the many in poverty and hunger.
- Massive drought in late 2000s pushes many to the edge and along with the "Arab Spring" elsewhere, results in marches and protests.
- These get violent once the Free Syrian Army is formed.

The rest is history.

Edited by Legend83 on Friday 7th April 14:21

A key question to ask is, who put the Assad dynasty into power? The answer may surprise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d392...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 7th April 15:35

[scherzkeks]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

Legend83 said:

J4CKO said:

Can anyone point me at a succinct explanation of what has happened in Syria to arrive where it is today, i.e. fked, big style ?

I just dont have the background knowledge and feel I should, a potted history kind of thing.

Funnily enough I read the Wiki of the Civil War over lunch today.

In brief:

- Assad's dad rules a majority Arab Sunni nation as a moderate Shia Alawite since the 70s.
- Passes a constitution that says the President of Syria does not necessarily have to be Muslim.
- Muslim Brotherhood not happy and call Jihad.
- Cue lots of fighting, including the death of c25,000 people in Hama in 1982 in a siege by Assad forces to destroy the Sunni uprisings.
- Assad dies in 2000 and the Presidency is taken over by Bashar with a promise of democratic reforms.
- Reforms don't happen, persecution and locking up politicial enemies does instead.
- Hard and fast introduction of free market economics benefits the few and leaves the many in poverty and hunger.
- Massive drought in late 2000s pushes many to the edge and along with the "Arab Spring" elsewhere, results in marches and protests.
- These get violent once the Free Syrian Army is formed.

The rest is history.

Edited by Legend83 on Friday 7th April 14:21

A key question to ask is, who put the Assad dynasty into power. The answer may surprise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d392...

The answer did not surprise me.

What do I win?

[Transmitter Man]

QuantumTokoloshi said:

A key question to ask is, who put the Assad dynasty into power? The answer may surprise.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/entries/d392...

Edited by QuantumTokoloshi on Friday 7th April 15:35

Quantum,

I'll read the link shortly however does it matter what you state, even in a constitution when you tightly control any election results?

Do you remember Assad's last election result, I do?

I'm just finishing reading about Sednaya prison in Damascus, one of the regime military prisons. Alabama state pen has a few things to learn before they reach the same standard, not!

Phil

[Transmitter Man]

scherzkeks said:

The answer did not surprise me.

What do I win?

The booby prize.

Not sectarian but...

Did you skim over: Assad wasn't a sectarian, but he moved through the army and the institutions of state ruthlessly installing those he trusted into positions of power - while removing, often bloodily, Sunnis, Druze and other members of the old elite Syrian class. And many of those he installed were Alawites, like him.

Phil

[5ohmustang]

Oh how they laughed at me for prepping.

Worth a watch. https://youtu.be/knSSUEdLcvg

[Cobnapint]

Yipper said:

US kills ~250 civilians in Syraq in the past 3 weeks... nobody raises a fuss... Assad kills ~100 by gas... war breaks out...

BS

The US led coalition kills 250 civilians... there's international criticism, an admission and inquiry as to what went wrong.

Assad uses chemical weapons against his own people, comes out with the old 'we wouldn't do such a thing', and his deliberately bombing of civilians sidekicks in Russia dream up masquerade no. 7894 to explain the release of Sarin gas in a populated area.

If you, and others on here, aren't willing to acknowledge the difference, then shame on you.

In other news, Russia has said the airstrikes were an illegal attack on a sovereign state. The irony meter is still spinning.

[johnxjsc1985]

Cobnapint said:

BS

The US led coalition kills 250 civilians... there's international criticism, an admission and inquiry as to what went wrong.

Assad uses chemical weapons against his own people, comes out with the old 'we wouldn't do such a thing', and his deliberately bombing of civilians sidekicks in Russia dream up masquerade no. 7894 to explain the release of Sarin gas in a populated area.

If you, and others on here, aren't willing to acknowledge the difference, then shame on you.

In other news, Russia has said the airstrikes were an illegal attack on a sovereign state. The irony meter is still spinning.

Russia still unable to act like grown ups when it comes to diplomacy. They are paranoid about the US and everything is measured against how they are judged against them. What a shame.

[anonymous-user]

Cobnapint said:

BS

The US led coalition kills 250 civilians... there's international criticism, an admission and inquiry as to what went wrong.

Assad uses chemical weapons against his own people, comes out with the old 'we wouldn't do such a thing', and his deliberately bombing of civilians sidekicks in Russia dream up masquerade no. 7894 to explain the release of Sarin gas in a populated area.

If you, and others on here, aren't willing to acknowledge the difference, then shame on you.

In other news, Russia has said the airstrikes were an illegal attack on a sovereign state. The irony meter is still spinning.

Under Obama Putin had been stirring up trouble all the over the place, mugs on here getting suckered in by Russia Today but fortunately them days are over, a US Prez being the leader of the free world again.
If anyone thinks Russia and Syria are more akin to their way of life opposed to the life style of the UK/US feel free to take a permanent vacation there.

[nyxster]

frankenstein12 said:

That and the fact Assad has been blamed without evidence. I note the comments from the so called friendly rebels that they hope this is just the start of a new campaign to remove Assad and that they launched immediate attacks in the aftermath of the rocket strikes.

it was widely reported the US tracked the aircraft taking off from the airfield, going to the target then returning. Military experts have confirmed that the fatalities could have been only caused by a high detonation bomb, and not from a release caused by bombing a supply dump.

The US probably have the most sophisticated military surveillance network on the planet and will be monitoring all key sites like this. it really isn't like they just saw someone post on facebook and responded to it by lobbing millions of tomahawks at a random target.

[Zod]

nyxster said:

frankenstein12 said:

That and the fact Assad has been blamed without evidence. I note the comments from the so called friendly rebels that they hope this is just the start of a new campaign to remove Assad and that they launched immediate attacks in the aftermath of the rocket strikes.

it was widely reported the US tracked the aircraft taking off from the airfield, going to the target then returning. Military experts have confirmed that the fatalities could have been only caused by a high detonation bomb, and not from a release caused by bombing a supply dump.

The US probably have the most sophisticated military surveillance network on the planet and will be monitoring all key sites like this. it really isn't like they just saw someone post on facebook and responded to it by lobbing millions of tomahawks at a random target.

Yeah, but that's just your opinion. Do you work in government like frankenstein? Are you a USA-loathing American seventh year PhD student at a third rank German university like scherzkeks?

[RedTrident]

Transmitter Man said:

scherzkeks said:

The answer did not surprise me.

What do I win?

The booby prize.

Not sectarian but...

Did you skim over: Assad wasn't a sectarian, but he moved through the army and the institutions of state ruthlessly installing those he trusted into positions of power - while removing, often bloodily, Sunnis, Druze and other members of the old elite Syrian class. And many of those he installed were Alawites, like him.

Phil

Assad is a dictator. Gaddaffi was a dictator. Saddam was a dictator....

I'd rather any of these than some Islamists in power. If the West get rid of Assad, what do people really think will happen in Syria?

[QuantumTokoloshi]

scherzkeks said:

The answer did not surprise me.

What do I win?

A presidential reference copy of Team America, world police. Durka Durka jihadi.

[QuantumTokoloshi]

Zod said:

nyxster said:

frankenstein12 said:

That and the fact Assad has been blamed without evidence. I note the comments from the so called friendly rebels that they hope this is just the start of a new campaign to remove Assad and that they launched immediate attacks in the aftermath of the rocket strikes.

it was widely reported the US tracked the aircraft taking off from the airfield, going to the target then returning. Military experts have confirmed that the fatalities could have been only caused by a high detonation bomb, and not from a release caused by bombing a supply dump.

The US probably have the most sophisticated military surveillance network on the planet and will be monitoring all key sites like this. it really isn't like they just saw someone post on facebook and responded to it by lobbing millions of tomahawks at a random target.

Yeah, but that's just your opinion. Do you work in government like frankenstein? Are you a USA-loathing American seventh year PhD student at a third rank German university like scherzkeks?

But are you a gullible man child, sitting in his mothers basement, with a computer and a complimentary subscription to macho hardman mercenary magazine like zod?

[QuantumTokoloshi]

nyxster said:

it was widely reported the US tracked the aircraft taking off from the airfield, going to the target then returning. Military experts have confirmed that the fatalities could have been only caused by a high detonation bomb, and not from a release caused by bombing a supply dump.

The US probably have the most sophisticated military surveillance network on the planet and will be monitoring all key sites like this. it really isn't like they just saw someone post on facebook and responded to it by lobbing millions of tomahawks at a random target.

All those experts and surveillance but the bulk of the evidence consists of dodgy jihadi inshallah eye witness testimony, Jihadi affiliated doctors and wobbly Muhammad Al jihadi productions victim videos tying Assad to the Sarin attack.

No hard evidence such as Sarin contaminated munitions containers or actual independent verification.

Seems legit.

Lucky we have all these experts to tell us what to think, like Colin Powell and his expert WMD briefing to the UN or the Blair expert intelligence dossier about WMD and being ready within 45 minutes or Cameron and the expert "Benghazi massacre" fiction. I feel so much safer now knowing the experts are on the case.